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OT Bradford
Views: 1010
Only just realised they have got even worse since Sparky left but still getting 18000 plus crowds .Perhaps they are the exception but big budget etc does not always work Cook must be a massive wedge there.
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Re: OT Bradford
Views: 617
They get about 8k crowds despite having 17k ST holders. All ST's are included in the attendance if they actually attend or not
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Re: OT Bradford
Views: 581
Did not know that , is that allowed by league regulations.Even so they still are getting the dosh for the full number ,albeit prob reduced bar sales etc .Realise not all would turn up but a 10000 no show is massive.
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Re: OT Bradford
Views: 426
Villa away was 32k in a stadium that holds 42k. Place look full apart from the odd seats here and there. At least 38/40k in there
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Re: OT Bradford
Views: 579
Edit: Misread the message. As I understand it, provided the figure given to the league/HMRC is correct for shared gate receipts/tax purposes etc., the figure announced can include non-attending ticket holders. Some include them, some don't.
I believe in the past we occasionally inflated our attendances for sponsorship purposes, for instance.
Edited by Chuds at 16:29:33 on 25th March 2024
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Re: OT Bradford
Views: 503
I know my Non-League team do it all the time so they can say their average attendance is around 450-500. In reality it's closer to 250. Surprised it's allowed to be honest.
Edited by RockyBottom at 17:38:56 on 25th March 2024
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Re: OT Bradford
Views: 494
If they are ST holders who just choose not to attend, they have still paid to be there so I assume that's why they're counted
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Re: OT Bradford
Views: 498
Nah, I mean inflating the attendance as in just adding on fans, not even those with tickets. To make crowds seem bigger when getting sponsors.
Leigh RMI used to always give the exact same attendance figure for their matches too.
And of course home clubs always (used to) understate the attendance for cup matches so they can get a larger cut of the gate receipts. That may be more difficult now with lots of clubs only doing advance/online ticket sales and with electronic turnstiles etc. though.
Edited by Chuds at 18:11:06 on 25th March 2024
Edited by Chuds at 19:04:37 on 25th March 2024
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Re: OT Bradford
Views: 488
I would have thought that would open you up to legal action if found out to be true. It's almost defrauding your sponsors. I certainly wouldn't suggest any club did that without hard evidence.
For example, I used to do circulation audits on free local newspapers. They needed to have assurance that the circulation figures they published were accurate so prospective advertisers/sponsors knew what they were paying for.
As for the cup attendance thing, that's also very suss.
I appreciate they may still be declaring all income etc for tax purposes, but even so, I wouldn't undertake such practices.
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Re: OT Bradford
Views: 487
I didn't say you would. Nor did I say I would. Nor did I say we do.
And besides, how would anybody (sponsors for instance) go about proving your figures are wrong? Stand on every turnstile and count the people who enter every game? Pretty easy to manipulate if you wanted to do so back when the turnstiles were all manual (at clubs where they still are).
Even nowadays a lot of (lower level) NL clubs just have the guy on the turnstiles manually adding a line with a pen on a sheet of paper for each person who goes through the gate, very simple to manipulate for a cup game to ensure you get the bigger share of gate receipts.
Edit: And all of this is before we even go down the route of some of those well-known dodgy owners of NL clubs who have used the clubs for money laundering purposes, all by manipulating the attendance figures. Stop being so naive and innocent, young Sev.
Edited by Chuds at 19:00:00 on 25th March 2024
Edited by Chuds at 19:02:13 on 25th March 2024
Edited by Chuds at 19:05:37 on 25th March 2024
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Re: OT Bradford
Views: 449
I'm pretty sure in this post you said we have done
http://www.borochat.co.uk/article/549752
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Re: OT Bradford
Views: 455
I'm not denying it may happen somewhere, I'm just saying I would never do it myself and never accuse anyone else of doing it.
As you say hard to prove when cash is paid like any cash business, and that gives opportunities for the unscrupulous.
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Re: OT Bradford
Views: 342
You?re being a cynic. Just because a club has a vape shop, nail bar and Turkish barbers inside the ground, it doesn?t mean they are money laundering.
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Re: OT Bradford
Views: 453
At least at our place you can get a feeling for crowd size .I think we have been returning exact figs, this season or so at least.
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Re: OT Bradford
Views: 445
The benefits of underdeclaring gates was a cash surplus the taxman couldn't count.
Which meant you could pay cash in hand for some staff or otherwise syphon off the money.
Not as easy or as attractive these days.
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Re: OT Bradford
Views: 440
Although with lots of tickets failing to scan properly/people not going through and double scanning by accident, and the stewards flashing their pass to let you in, I'm not sure how accurate our numbers can really be these days. I guess if its done on turnstile turns might be more accurate.
There's a few games I've been to the announced attendance seemed much higher than reality
Edited by AndyC at 19:15:00 on 25th March 2024
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Re: OT Bradford
Views: 444
I was going to say that you cannot access the ground by paying on a turnstile so the turnstile count is redundant and the attendance must simply be done on ticket sales as they are all automated, however that wouldn't take into account no-shows and I am informed that we announce the actual attendance (hence the away fan attendance occasionally being a couple lower than the capacity figure when the away end is sold out, because a couple of people haven't attended).
Double-scanning wouldn't be an issue as the turnstile shows an error message the second time, so it would only count the one ticket, and I guess if the gate monitor uses their pass prior to another ticket being scanned then it will register that it relates to the previous error etc.
Am sure we could find out exactly how it is done if interested enough (which I actually am so may seek out the answer ?).
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Re: OT Bradford
Views: 432
I'm not sure we know how widespread false QR codes are.
Turn up with a photo of a QR code, or a copy of someone else's ticket after they've gone in, and when it doesn't scan, wave it at a steward and they will use their override code without glancing at your ticket.
I've done it accidentally, last season, (having paid for a ticket), when I tried to use the ticket I'd bought for my daughter - I had both hers and mine on my phone - who went in ahead of me. I got a red X and the steward glanced at my screen for a split second and blipped me in.
Ripe for fraud.
Edited by BALDOCKBORO at 21:38:48 on 25th March 2024
Edited by BALDOCKBORO at 07:37:34 on 26th March 2024
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Re: OT Bradford
Views: 267
Also, I have on occasion spotted both a child ticket, and an U12 unaccompanied ticket, being used by blokes who were clearly at least 25. If you stand over the scanner such that it is difficult for gate staff to see, I suspect you could get away with this most if not all of the time.
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Re: OT Bradford
Views: 432
After someone reads this thread, the official site will release an article in a few days on how they calculate attendances ?
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Re: OT Bradford
Views: 503
How does one know they only get 8,000 if the declared attendance is 18,000?
Has someone counted each game?
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Re: OT Bradford
Views: 500
Ok, 8k might be a little low but given their current form the ground has been very empty for the last few home games
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Re: OT Bradford
Views: 914
When we were talking about signing Cook some of their fans said why would he want to come and play for us when he can play in front of 20,000 fans etc.
If the pay was the same, I'd prefer competing for League One playoffs than languishing down the lower end of League Two.
But of course we can't compete with those sort of wages because we don't get 18,000 fans each week. (And I'd take the wages!)
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Re: OT Bradford
Views: 911
They used to sell STs for £100 every year in order to try to get big crowds, so although the crowds are large, the income from ticket sales alone wasn't anywhere near as big as you might imagine, and partly helps to explain why the crowds are so big.
Edit: They were available for £198 this season.
Edited by Chuds at 15:25:47 on 24th March 2024
Edited by Chuds at 15:27:02 on 24th March 2024
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