as you have probably gathered i usually dont start a thread im usualy tagging on the end .
the titled subject ref; Sheff U, v Spurs
the disallowed spurs goal, the worst var decision i have ever witnessed
a total disgrace no other word describes it.
you have to see it to believe it. incredulous !!!
question WHO is now refereeing the games and what purpose are linesmen for.
the ref actually got it spot on the spurs player was fouled he was knocked to the ground the ball hit his hand
BUT the ref played advantage Kane scored even the commentator called it a piece of good refereeing.
then var got involved and cancelled the goal out for handball !!!
NOW two things why was a free kick not awarded to spurs for the initial foul ?
TWO and the most important one is why did the ref not consult the monitor ?
i have no doubt some arse will tell us its just teething problems and " yes we need to learn from our mistakes "
i despair. i really do.
for me the ref should ref. if he has any doubts he should then consult the monitor.
this system was installed to cancel out human error
BUT hold on a minute there is a human at the end of VAR working it.
Here we are again Joe just when we thought we had seen one of the worst VAR decisions yet the one against Villa last night is now challenging the Spurs one for top spot...........scrap this pathetic boil of puss from our game NOW
I turned the Spurs game off after 30 mins last night - not because of VAR (which was bad enough) but because I cant bear to see what Mr Miserable has done to Spurs in just 8 months.
I used to like him; It always seemed what he was saying was done tongue-in-cheek and behind a smirk and wink.
He has now turned into a nasty bitter man, which is a shame as he clearly knows his stuff (as shown when being a pundit).
His style of football is also out-dated.
Why any Prem club would want him in charge is beyond me.
Still think he would do a good job with someone, needs to be right club with the right players that fit his style, going to Spurs was always going to be a disaster, Levy as much to blame he got rid of Poch as soon as Jose was available, act in haste repent at leisure
I THINK his record at Manchester United include
winning the Europa Cup
winning the league cup.
Losing a FA Cup final.
Thing is, his style is outdated and he will never join a club who need that "style"
fwiw ( which aint much i admit )
i think he needs to get a job that consists of one whereby enthusiasm and belief outweigh one where
C A S H. is not king
how you motivate some of these spoilt brats is beyond me.
basically he needs to re invent himself.
the Boro would do him the world of good as a person.
VAR was brought in, we were told, to put right any clear and obvious errors made by the match officials . The clue is in the wording. But the implementation of VAR has gone well beyond that . VAR now has supremacy. Used correctly. ie serious foul play which non of the officials saw is positive. Goal line technology assisting the referee as to whether the ball has crossed the goal line is positive. Telling a referee or a linesman that a decision they made was wrong , when to the naked eye it was correct is not a positive direction for the game to go. It undermines the officials. Pointing out that a player is offside by a nano metre does not help the officials
Two problems, by the letter of the law they got the decision right, however, VAR is supposed to be used to overturn clear and obvious errors by the ref but it is being used to forensically look for every small thing that could rule a goal out , sometimes taking 3-4 mins, if it’s taking that long to check then it is not a clear and obvious error.
Edited by stone ragma at 09:02:49 on 3rd July 2020
IMO - Worse decision was Sheffield “non goal” at villa.
Yesterday’s cock up was as more to do with rules on handball.
To me - if the remote referees can not make a decision using just two cameras (chosen by a different referee) within 30 seconds (max) then on field referee decision stands.
It has totally ruined the enjoyment of fans and players alike, one of the greatest pleasures was the spontaneous celebrations following a goal.
Both players and supporters now have to suspend that euphoric moment and wait minutes for permission to either laugh or cry.
VAR should not just be tweaked it should be dumped.
It should be for "clear and obvious".
IT always amazes me NOT how many decision the officials (particularly linesmen) get wrong, but how many they get right.
It really ruins for me.
The 'grey areas' of decision making in football makes it interesting and when it becomes really technocratic I don't enjoy it as much. It just doesn't work in football like it does in other sports. Football is quite flowing whereas other sports such as cricket (where I love the tech bits) have more natural breaks where things can be checked.
Also discussing referees decisions and perceived injustices is all part of being a fan. We now moved from talking about the referees decisions to VAR's and it all just feels a bit removed for me.
the bit i dont get is when a refs decision is overturned why does he not go and check the monitor
then let the REFS decision be the final one.
having said that i cant logically explain how an appointed official can get anything so wrong
plus even giving Sheffield the free kick was the last straw for me
Even though there are big problems with var the problem with the major incident in last nights game was the law . There is no room for manoeuvre in the handball law as it currently stands . In the past a referee would have used common sense in this incident but now there's nothing that allows him to do that . Var actually got this right by the letter of the law but the law is ridiculous .
actually in this instance your wrong
i will tell you why
the spurs player was fouled
the ref played the advantage FOR THE FOUL..... that is the whole point
when the goal was disallowed it should have then been a free kick to spurs
the only reason the ball hit the spurs players arm was because he was fouled ... get it now ?
the person on the end of VAR was so inept he said it was for the handball
BUT the ref HAD played the advantage for the foul on the spurs player which was a good decision
IF Kane had NOT scored he would have brought play back for a free kick to spurs
the handball was of no consequence due to the fact as previous stated the spurs player was falling due to the foul on him, the arm contact was unavoidable.
total ineptness on the part of the VAR official
The problem is the law says if the ball hits the hand/arm no matter what the circumstances and it leads to a goal the goal will be disallowed, therefore as the ref played on and a goal was scored the handball then had to be taken into account under the current laws
im not going to argue here Davey
ive explained it above.
leading experienced people in the game
are saying its the worst decision they have ever seen
i agree with them
AGAIN if the ref had blown for the foul the handball, the goal, would have been of no consequence.
even you can surely grasp that
The ref let play go because Spurs still had possession from which they scored, the ref wasn’t aware of a handball until VAR intervened
The problem was because Kane scored . They can only go back and give the free kick if no advantage was gained . The fact that Spurs scored meant it was but a further infringement ( by the letter of the law ) occured after the original foul . He either needed to give the foul there and then or play advantage he played advantage they scored but a further infringement occurred . All the var made the decision on was the handball the chance to give the free kick for the foul for the foul had already gone i'm afraid .
if you cant see what was wrong then i give up
incidentally there have been several handballs in the penalty area since the lock down
play has continued because there was no chance the players concerned could get their arms out of the way of the ball.
the spurs players hand only made the contact because he had been fouled, he was falling to the ground that is the key
a) a goal
b) a free kick to spurs
The rule for handball in penalty box is different for attackers and defenders - that’s a big problem.
If a defender handles it it’s a penalty, if an attacker handles it and a goal is scored the goal is ruled out !!
Can’t remember which way, but if hits the arm of one there is no “wiggle room” whilst if it hits the arm of the other then “intent” comes into it.
I see a google coming on 😣
Intent doesn’t come in to it now, if it did the Spurs goal would have stood because there was no intent by Mora to handle the ball
So confusing intent is valid (perhaps not totally correct word).
The ball can hit hand without being penalised
The law remains that deliberate handball is an offence. But accidental handball will also be a free-kick if...
the ball goes into the goal off an attacker
a player gets the ball using their arm or hand and then scores, or creates a goalscoring opportunity
a player's hand or arm has made their body "unnaturally bigger"
the player's arm or hand is above their shoulder (unless the player has controlled the ball onto their own arm or hand)
But a handball will not be a free-kick if...
the ball is knocked on to a hand by the player in question or a nearby player
the arm or hand is close to their body and "has not made their body unnaturally bigger"
if a player is falling and the ball touches their hand or arm when it is between their body and the ground to support the body - but not extended to make the body bigger
if the player being fouled had been the defender
would you give a penalty... no because you would have given the free kick.
yet this time the defender committed the foul thats the only reason the ball hit the spurs players arm
even the Sheffield manager got it
its a no brainer
I'm not saying it ain't a right mess that needs sorting . They obviously didn't think there was a foul on the Spurs player or they would have given the free kick . This for me is another major problem with var . So many decisions in football are based on opinion and if that's the case it might as well be the referee's .
There is a very easy solution, ditch var and make the game enjoyable again.
Sadly that won’t happen.
I am unaware of any football supporter who actually likes it.
" sadly that wont happen"
sadly your right.
On a brighter note at least we won't have to worry about it down LW and we can all keep moaning about crap officials making crap decisions . The way it should be .
Its part and parcel of the game and generally evens out over time. Although Gareth Dales 'winner' in extra time the in the play off final against Wealdstone was never offside.
worst forum poster ever
Fully agree we were robbed .
Travelled to Blyth for a Trophy tie ( Carr era ) we came back from 2-0 down to draw level then lose to a last minute penalty . I'm still convinced to this day it wasn't a pen .
Common sense has never been in the laws of football though, there are two problems the law as it stands and VAR is not being used in the way they said it would ie to correct clear and obvious mistakes
As i said there are big problems with var but the current handball law has no wiggle room at all for the referee as it's so black & white . Both need addressing by the powers that be .
I'm willing to give VAR more of a chance to settle in - but it needs to get decisions right (almost) always.
What does need to go is the handball rule. There have been changes to make the game more exciting and favour attacking such as no picking up pass backs, offside rule changed to level and not behind - so whoever came up with the rule that if there is a completely incidental handball in the lead up to a goal then it is disallowed needs to take a long look in the mirror (or the VAR monitor).