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Re: York promoted
Views: 562
Just shows how quickly things can change in football . Only two or three months back York fans were protesting at how unhappy they were with the situation on the pitch .
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Re: York promoted
Views: 521
They also seem to absolutely hate their new ground aswell. Like really hate it
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Re: York promoted
Views: 523
So much so they tried to smash it up last week .
Seriously though there always seems to be a certain amount of resistance to new grounds no matter how much of a shit hole the old one was .
Spurs are probably an exception as they build a world class stadium on the same site .
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Re: York promoted
Views: 473
Yeah but then our fanbase moaned like hell cause we had to play at Wembley for nearly two years lol
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Re: York promoted
Views: 504
8500 capacity.
Today's attendance was 7448...that's serious income for the Club!
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Re: York promoted
Views: 544
And Dorking, I never really look at conference south table cause we never in it or hardly play any of those teams but who are Dorking lol :)
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Re: York promoted
Views: 525
From what I can tell, Dorking are owned and managed by some rich bloke who made his money in the City.
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Hope is not a plan.
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Re: York promoted
Views: 520
I remember going to Dorkings ground once when Guildford groundshared there after leaving Josephs Road.
Guildford also groundshared at the Metropolitan Police ground for one year too.
No idea if that is the same ground that Dorking use now.
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Re: York promoted
Views: 530
Dorking play at Meadowbank Stadium which is also used by Surrey FA, they moved there in 2018, there owner is looking to build a new ground in Dorking as he thinks Meadowbank Stadium is no longer big enough, interestingly he is Owner and Manager
Edited by MP23 at 18:48:21 on 21st May 2022
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Re: York promoted
Views: 496
Another side who have made rapid progress . Twenty years ago they were playing in the Crawley & district league . That's somewhere around twelve levels below where they will be next season .
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Re: York promoted
Views: 523
Yes, another interesting one?
The Meadowbank Stadium has a ground capacity of 3000, with 522 seats.
It also has a 3G artificial pitch.
The minimum capacity for membership of the National is 4000, with the potential to increase to 5000, the minimum requirement for membership of the EFL.
Looking at the photos on the Internet, the Stadium looks hemmed in, with little room for expansion.
No such problems at LW, when the time comes...
Edited by VoR at 19:48:42 on 21st May 2022
Edited by VoR at 22:04:00 on 21st May 2022
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Re: York promoted
Views: 485
Will be if the land owner doesn’t agree to building the extensions you that you seem to think the boro would want even though they struggled to get over 1000+ home fans about 6 years ago when last in conference
Edited by Boro90 at 20:07:40 on 21st May 2022
Edited by Boro90 at 20:08:07 on 21st May 2022
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Re: York promoted
Views: 445
The plans need to be in place, once you are accepted into the National.
We have been there, we have been top of the National, we know the requirements.
The FA expect member clubs of the National to be prepared for entry into the EFL...they need to be provided with the expansion plans, as proof of suitability for entry into the EFL.
Plus 'Security of Tenure'.
The FA require proof of 'Security of Tenure' at every level of the NLS.
It's not about home attendances.
It's about a club's suitablity to play at the level in the NLS.
The membership requirements increase at each level, as you move up through the Pyramid.
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Re: York promoted
Views: 431
Again like people keep saying to you it’s excellent you keep planning for our return to the conference when we are struggling two leagues below it and no one at the clubs seems to be preparing. Good job you are :)
Edited by Boro90 at 21:18:44 on 21st May 2022
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Re: York promoted
Views: 456
Put the Boro to one side for a moment.
Peterborough Sports...average attendandance 347...ground capacity 2300...they are now required to prove a Stadium capacity of 3000, with a potential increase to 4000 being possible, to play in the National League North.
Dorking Wanderers...average attendance 1381...ground capacity 3000...they are now required to prove a Stadium capacity of 4000, with a potential increase to 5000 being possible, to play in the National League.
Not an issue at LW...capacity 4650 plus a new Main Stand 500 equals 5150...double the capacity of the Away End covered terrace to increase the capacity to 6000...the FA will be happy with that...plus a 10-year rolling lease.
Job done!
Edited by VoR at 21:40:17 on 21st May 2022
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Re: York promoted
Views: 427
What would you say if you were told that the owner has already offered to sell his share of the Boro to a prospective buyer ?
63--13--12--38--73--117= 50*/189
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Re: York promoted
Views: 425
Will the owners of the ground pay for this new stand?
Should the football club pay for this new stand when it has no security of tenancy?
How would the football club afford to buy this new stand?
=== I am a 1 in 10
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Re: York promoted
Views: 415
That's for the future, all we need in the short-term are the Building Plans in place, to demonstrate our intentions to the FA...the proof.
...& agreement from NBBC Planners that we can upgrade the floodlights to 500 lux.
...& a 10-year rolling lease.
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Re: York promoted
Views: 421
And you expect the club to have/do this.
Sounds like they can’t even decide what prices are for next season.
The club had a plan for the academy - now have a new one.
Are the club not well into a five year plan now?
New lights would also need to go ahead for national rail and other parties.
If all this easily done, why no 10 year rolling lease in place now? Surely that part of five year plan? And very important part.
=== I am a 1 in 10
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Re: York promoted
Views: 411
Compliance with the FA Rules for Membership, at any level of the Pyramid, should be a part of every club's business planning.
I noticed that Welwyn Garden City's Manager has resigned, after their ground grading issues prevented them from playing in the play-offs.
Yes, National Rail would be a consultee in the planning process.
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Re: York promoted
Views: 434
Just adding fire to the rumour mill and also just random information that I get told but I have heard now from a couple of sources I would say are trust worthy that we are already looking at moving from liberty way and the site we are looking at, to say it will require work to get up to league standard is understating it. So maybe we won’t have a conference standard ground in near future
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Re: York promoted
Views: 433
Interesting and would make sense to consider all options if the ground lease is up for negotiation soon.
The stands at Liberty Way could be moved couldn't they?
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Hope is not a plan.
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Re: York promoted
Views: 417
borne out of complete ignorance on my part regarding the ground issues
does anyone actually know whats going on.
will we be turfed out ( poor joke attempt ) come deadline day
who owns the stadium ?
have we been officially informed on the future plans.
are we looking at a new stadium... due to necessity
OR is it all just 'superstition' by certain posters.
yes or no ????? Mark.
cheers.
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Re: York promoted
Views: 400
"does anyone actually know whats going on."
I'm sure some people do. I don't think that anyone on here knows the full details.
"will we be turfed out ( poor joke attempt ) come deadline day"
I guess that comes down to the ground owner. You would like to think that it wouldn't need to come to that. Either ground lease extended or alternative arrangements made
"who owns the stadium ?"
Arden Tigress Ltd. One of the directors is Neil Robinson is/was on the Nuns committee and one of their sponsors. Seem to remember that JG that he and Neil get on, which is evident given that there hasn't been any repeat of skipgate etc.
"have we been officially informed on the future plans."
No, although in the Dave Sharpe interview JD did talk about the end of the ground lease
"are we looking at a new stadium... due to necessity"
Not sure but to me it would make sense to explore all options should the ground lease not be extended.
"OR is it all just 'superstition' by certain posters."
I don't think so. Given that the ground lease is an issue which is something that needs to be resolved, there could be something to it?
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Hope is not a plan.
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Re: York promoted
Views: 288
Thanks for your honest replies Mark.
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Re: York promoted
Views: 362
Genuine question, what grounds are there for thinking the lease would not be extended?
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Re: York promoted
Views: 344
Maybe that we were supposed to have a rolling lease but it hasn't rolled for a number of years?
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Re: York promoted
Views: 348
thank you for that full update Mark
much appreciated
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Re: York promoted
Views: 408
It would be possible to re-locate all three stand structures & the precast concrete terrace units (on the open terrace).
The profiled metal cladding on the three stands could be re-used but it might be more cost-effective to renew the cladding, it is a cheap, single skin profile that is readily available in a range of standard colours.
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Re: York promoted
Views: 368
Only with the owners permission who owns everything above the ground.
Unlikely to allow floodlights to be moved.
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Re: York promoted
Views: 365
When the time comes that a floodlight upgrade is required, to 500 lux (assuming Planning Permission is granted by NBBC) (light pollution/light spillage?), then it would be better to install a new set of modern, state-of-the art, low-energy floodlights...preferably four columns, one column located in each corner of the Stadium.
This will improve spectator viewing standards & there will be no viewing restrictions/obstructions, like with the existing floodlighting layout.
Wiseman Lighting are the Southern Football League's floodlighting partner & are available for advice.
Edited by VoR at 12:32:19 on 22nd May 2022
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Re: York promoted
Views: 404
This will improve spectator viewing standards
Never knew that was a problem, not even on the few occasions 2500+ have been at liberty way.
The only issue I have with the view, is what I see on the pitch
=== I am a 1 in 10
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Re: York promoted
Views: 346
There are lighting column obstructions to viewing standards.
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Re: York promoted
Views: 359
No chance at Liberty way for whole host of reasons
And new ground will take a while before it needs state of the art floodlights
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Re: York promoted
Views: 401
It still has to be planned for, everything has to be planned for, short/medium/long-term.
Some elements of the construction have to be put below the line on the Cost Plan.
A new football ground should have the land available within the boundary walls to comfortably accomodate a minimum 5000 capacity stadium (including 1000 seats), preferably 6000 capacity (including 1000 seats), (the FA's rules could change in the future), to allow membership of the EFL.
Anything less than that would condemn the Boro to a future life in non-league football...I'm sure the fans will not thank the Owner for that!?
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Re: York promoted
Views: 347
Anything less than that would condemn the Boro to a future life in non-league footbal
Like for the last 100 years, and no sugar-daddy on the horizon to change that.
=== I am a 1 in 10
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Re: York promoted
Views: 389
But you don’t have to plan for some of these things cause Nuneaton aren’t going to get in the football league - we aren’t going to get back in the conference.
Can I ask VOR cause I am genuinely interested I don’t know the numbers but aren’t we over 100k in debt. Let’s say this coming season we average 450 at home games it costs 12 quid to get in and 150 are season ticket sales paying 200 quid a ticket (all round numbers to make it easy and being generous) So that’s £30,000 from ticket sales and we make 3,600 a game. £75,600 for 21 games (not counting cups) so let’s say £105,000
We have a squad of 20 players all on a average wage of £200 playing 2nd week of august through to last week of April So 38 weeks (again not a clue what players on) also this won’t happen as we will use over 50 but trying to keep it simple 20x200 = 4000 x 38 = £152,000
So going by ticket sales against wages you are looking at nearly a 50k shortfall so then you have cooperate making more money and sponsorship etc but surely that covers the 50k difference
So question is with the debt not decreasing who pays for all these improvements to the ground ? Who pays for the new ground if we get kicked off LW ? Why do we need a football league standard ground and why would you be looking at moving the club forward when they are clearly being built on such rocky foundations. Until you clear that debt and buy the ground I can’t see a future let alone one where for some reason we play in a mini Ricoh.
To me how you seem to think the club should be run is like me buying a house I can’t afford in the first place, I can’t afford to pay the monthly bills but I’m about to spend money I don’t have on a extension
* all guestuimentions I haven’t got a clue how the finances work at the club but this is how I would guess the club works
Edited by Boro90 at 12:58:42 on 22nd May 2022
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Re: York promoted
Views: 291
"Who pays for the new ground if we get kicked off LW ?"
- Agree a long term lease with the council (some notable examples include Stockport County, Nottingham Forest)
- Liberty Way owner happy for Boro to take metal stands with them
- Long term lease by the council enables the club to apply for different grants to improve the ground (Football Stadia Improvement Fund for instance)
- Make some money on a FA Cup and FA Trophy final, put this towards the ground.
Done! ;)
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Hope is not a plan.
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Re: York promoted
Views: 257
We will need to take the precast concrete terracing units, in front of the Rugby Club, with us as well...we have already paid for them, we don't want to have to pay again, to replace them in the future...
Edited by VoR at 15:56:28 on 23rd May 2022
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Re: York promoted
Views: 218
Has anyone considered the cost and practicality of moving these stands? I don’t think they will fit in the back of a van.
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Re: York promoted
Views: 226
Sponsored drag by the Bisc.
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How bright should floodlights be in the Conference?
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Re: York promoted
Views: 245
They belong to the ground owner - as does everything above ground at Liberty Way.
As Mark suggests he may be agreeable to items being moved.
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Re: York promoted
Views: 230
It will be in his interest financially to have a clean site.
I can't see the objection myself.
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Re: York promoted
Views: 244
Unless he wants to use LW for Nuns - in which case he wants the stadium as it stands (pun intended).
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Re: York promoted
Views: 185
One thing comes to mind, if he still wanted to use it for the Nuns why would he cut his rental income by kicking us out, doesn’t seem to make financial sense
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Re: York promoted
Views: 168
Maybe not. Depends the "value" of playing all home games on the main stadium and having people watching from their bar.
=== I am a 1 in 10
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Re: York promoted
Views: 233
Greg ive always been led to believe that the metal stands
belong to the club and are separate from the actual land.
Mark will probably confirm or disprove that theory
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Re: York promoted
Views: 257
I always believed that the stands, floodlights etc belonged to Boro, but Gustavus insists that everything belongs to the landlord.
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Re: York promoted
Views: 239
The Owner, who I believe is a speculative land developer, if so, would be primarily interested in the land.
That is what is most valuable & I can see that...
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Re: York promoted
Views: 242
The owner, who is a Nuns fan and a former leading Nuns committee member, may just after getting Nuns back as main tenants.
They may not want the stand and portable buildings and terraces, bit may want the concrete terracing.
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How bright should floodlights be in the Conference?
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Re: York promoted
Views: 241
"who I believe is a speculative land developer"
What info is making you believe that?
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Hope is not a plan.
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Re: York promoted
Views: 236
I checked the company out on the Internet.
They buy & sell own real estate.
Own real estate can be land & buildings.
Edited by VoR at 16:49:16 on 23rd May 2022
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Re: York promoted
Views: 225
Arden Tigress? It looks like its only been set up to buy the ground.
The company directors both also work for MSCM Ltd which is related to the energy industry, and no other links to land development.
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Hope is not a plan.
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Re: York promoted
Views: 222
Yes, the net worth of the Company is -£73 (minus £73).
The liabilities equal the assets...circa £350k...I assume that could be the price paid for the ground?
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Re: York promoted
Views: 236
I really dont know to be honest Joe. I have heard different things over the years. From all the stands and portacabins are owned by the club to nothing being owned.
Gustavus seems to be quite informed on all things to do with the ground, so they could be correct.
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Hope is not a plan.
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Re: York promoted
Views: 248
fwiw Mark i would imagine that would be in the agreement.
in a nutshell does it include fixtures and fittings ???
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Re: York promoted
Views: 221
Sorry Joe, I dont know. A lot has happened since then. Saw lots of documents when I was more involved a few years ago but cant remember some of it.
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Hope is not a plan.
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Re: York promoted
Views: 221
let me put it this way Mark
if the gang that run the Boro ie JG and his backers dont know what they own
then i shake my head in utter despair and disbelief
i will go as far as to suggest utter ridicule would not be an over estimation of the owner(s)
if that were so.
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Re: York promoted
Views: 221
They should/will know
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Hope is not a plan.
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Re: York promoted
Views: 226
exactly thats why i said it.
of course they do.
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Re: York promoted
Views: 156
They're just not telling us
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Re: York promoted
Views: 232
Why would the Nuns need a Stadium that is in excess of National League standards, one step in development away from the EFL?
Are they intending to elevate themselves to the Championship, the second tier of professional rugby?
I have watched the Nuns on occasions, when they were playing in the third tier of professional rugby & a crowd of 250 was a good turn-out.
I would question your judgement there Greg?
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Re: York promoted
Views: 238
Do you take any notice of what happens at Boro at all, VoR? The whole skipgate episode was because Nuns wanted to play in the stadium and we wanted to charge more than agreed. Do you not understand that?
You may question my judgement, but I question whether you actually understand Boro, the situation and the history.
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Re: York promoted
Views: 230
Yes, I understand that but that is a totally different scenario to the Nuns playing solely at LW & the Boro playing at Avenue Road!
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Re: York promoted
Views: 167
Indeed, VoR. Back in those days, we told Nuns when they were allowed to play i9n the main stadium. If Boro move out, the Nuns (for whom one of the directors owns the ground) could play there every week. That's a big difference!
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Re: York promoted
Views: 163
None of this makes any sense to me Greg.
All of this small-minded petty squabbling!
All it is doing is hampering the progress of our two principle sporting clubs in the town, both with rich histories...not good.
It needs a common-sense approach by both clubs, in my opinion but what do I know, I am just a simple soul.
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Re: York promoted
Views: 161
What has history got to do with anything?
Boro history is full of ups and some massive downs.
We live in 2022. Thats what matters
=== I am a 1 in 10
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Re: York promoted
Views: 157
Both sides have behaved like children at different times. The ground belonged to Nuns, Boro bought it then reneged on part of the agreement. Things escalated to where we are now.
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Re: York promoted
Views: 158
I would like to see both Clubs follow through now on Ted Stocker's plan of a Trust being put in place to ensure that sport can continue at LW & neither Club can take the Stadium away from the other...why the ground has to be in the sole ownership of a Member of the Nuns is questionable to me...why can't it be in joint ownership?
Then we can get on with completing the Liberty Way Stadium project.
Anything other than that, in my opinion, is pure fantasy for both Clubs & can only cause damage to both Clubs in the long-term.
Just think it through!
What could happen now is a complete nonsense & could bring ridicule upon the town?
They are just my thoughts as a sports fan who has a lot of pride in the past achievements of both the Boro & the Nuns...
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Re: York promoted
Views: 157
"why the ground has to be in the sole ownership of a Member of the Nuns is questionable to me...why can't it be in joint ownership?"
The previous owner was looking to sell, and Arden Tigress made an acceptable offer. That's how sales usually work in business.
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Re: York promoted
Views: 160
We need to move on now from that position, if both Clubs are going to progress.
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Re: York promoted
Views: 180
I suspect that Nuns intend to move on by playing all their home games in the stadium with no other tenants getting in the way.
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Re: York promoted
Views: 167
I'd have no problem with that,it would be above board and legal too.
My thoughts are also going the way that Bedworth Oval may well reappear on the radar too.
Maybe temporarily at first but who knows ?
63--13--12--38--73--117= 50*/189
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Re: York promoted
Views: 199
Can you think of any other reason why it's proving so difficult to get a new tenancy agreement?
Edited by Greg (NBFC) at 18:14:48 on 24th May 2022
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Gateshead promoted
Views: 171
That is all :)
=== I am a 1 in 10
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Re: Gateshead promoted
Views: 177
But how many seats do they have? And what plans do they have for the next few seasons? We need to know!
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Re: Gateshead promoted
Views: 203
11,500 capacity - All seated (requirement for premier).
Probably good enough for Champions league.
=== I am a 1 in 10
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Re: York promoted
Views: 252
Why would boro need a ground that exceees national league standards?
The gap for the nuns is probably smaller than the gap for the boro
=== I am a 1 in 10
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Re: York promoted
Views: 234
We built a 4650 capacity Stadium at LW, the National League requirement is 4000.
The people who decided to build a 4650 capacity Stadium, are better placed to answer your question.
The Nuns play in the Midland Premier, one level below the National League Two North.
I believe the Nuns reverted to being an amateur club, before they were relegated into the Midland Premier.
I'm not sure whether any of the clubs in the National League Two North/South are semi-professional, it gets a bit blurred in Rugby Union.
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Re: York promoted
Views: 228
I have totally lost track of the relevance of any of this now.
Boro do not own the ground.
The people that built the ground didn't end up paying for it.
The ground that was built was a far cry from the one promised.
The ground that was built did not contain the things we specifically moved to have.
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How bright should floodlights be in the Conference?
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Re: York promoted
Views: 219
So, both the Nuns and Boro are one level below "National league- North"
There is also no such thing as amateur clubs now.
=== I am a 1 in 10
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Re: York promoted
Views: 222
No, technically the Nuns are one level higher than the Boro.
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Re: York promoted
Views: 334
You should not compare how someone manages their personal finances with how a business should manage their finances.
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Hope is not a plan.
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Re: York promoted
Views: 400
I knew someone who took out a big loan to build an extension on a house they were struggling to pay the mortgage on .Didn't make much sense to me but they wouldn't listen and it didn't end well .
True story just thought i'd share .
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Re: York promoted
Views: 372
latest figures (june 21) from CH says £590,733 in debt.
Whilst these need to be taken in context, thats the latest figures.
=== I am a 1 in 10
Edited by VS Boro at 13:25:11 on 22nd May 2022
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Re: York promoted
Views: 333
2021 I think.
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How bright should floodlights be in the Conference?
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Re: York promoted
Views: 395
That’s ok then,
We can definitely afford new state of the art floodlights, a new ground.
Let’s push for the conference with 1/2 million quid of debt and see how we do :)
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Re: York promoted
Views: 349
I think you have done a good job there & your logic is sound.
However, it's not just about the present, the FA dictate the rules & you have to be prepared as a Club for future progression, that is what drives the Pyramid.
It's not about what I want!
We have to plan properly within the rules & then assess where we are at any given time...
If there is an oversight/mistake made now in our planning, it could be expensive to put right in the future.
We should be prepared & follow the FA's rulebook in our thinking...
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Re: York promoted
Views: 357
But you need to keep the forward planning in perspective, VoR - and that's where your logic falls down. To be realistic, at any time we need only to provide adequate facilities for our current league/division with a contingency plan for one level higher (bearing in mind that there is a grace period for upgrades when promoted, isn't there?). Planning for three or four steps up the pyramid is sheer madness. It's a bit like a Pauls' Land team planning for a bigger version of Wembley in case they have a good run of seasons and end up in the Champions' League.
Edited by Greg (NBFC) at 14:40:58 on 22nd May 2022
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Re: York promoted
Views: 334
Agree Greg
That's how clubs like Solihull , Brackley & Harrogate have done it . Doing the minimum they need to do as they have made the next move up .
I give you R&D , Hinckley , Sittingbourne & Darlington who all went down the route of building far more than they needed at that time and look where it got them all .
Taking the lease situation out of the equation LW is good enough to get us two promotions as it stands . If we were ever in the position to get a third we will have to have found a hell of a lot of finance from somewhere so will probably be in a position to do any improvements when there needed .
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Re: York promoted
Views: 334
I wouldn't hold Harrogate up as a good example of good forward planning.
Having to dig up a 3G artificial pitch to relay a grass pitch is not a good use of funds & with good forward planning is unnecessary.
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The AstroTurf was vital to the earning money to afford other improvements.
It served its purpose, perhaps quicker than planned.
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I agree Greg but your logic falls down in so far as LW has been built for one step up to the EFL...that was clearly the stated ambition at the time, before everything has seemingly gone pear-shaped!?
Your logic is spot on if we end up having to start all over again, maybe at Step 9 or possibly Step 8, if that is all we can afford to build?
They are two completely different scenarios.
Also, to build a new Stadium will take us into uncertain delays/timescales & could possibly even involve a ground-share, a "bridge" in the medium term.
I believe the Pingles is only suitable for Step 10, maybe Step 9 if it passes a ground inspection audit?
Edited by VoR at 15:04:18 on 22nd May 2022
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"LW has been built for one step up to the EFL"
Are you absolutely 100% certain of that, VoR? I was actually involved closely with Boro board when Liberty Way was being designed and built, and I don't remember the subject of meeting EFL ground requirements ever being mentioned - even when a group of us were being given a guided tour preview before it was officially opened. It may be a happy accident that it was close to requirements, but I don't think it was specifically built with that in mind - unless, of course, you know better.
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I base my judgement on what I see, what is actually there, I can take you through it all blow by blow if you wanted me to?
You can download the National League rules yourself & compare them to what has been built...it ticks all the boxes.
It complies in all respects with the Rules for Membership of the National League (with the Membership Rules of the EFL specifically in mind), as required by the National League.
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I don't need to go through it blow by blow. I was just pointing out that your statement about Liberty Way being built for EFL was, in fact, incorrect. It complies with National League requirements because that's the level we were aiming for. As far as I know, no board has ever seriously aimed for EFL membership (though there was one famous "Div 2 in 5 years" post that has been extensively ridiculed).
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I said it was one step up to the EFL.
By building LW to National League standard, the Stadium design is ready for the step up to the EFL.
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"By building LW to National League standard, the Stadium design is ready for the step up to the EFL."
Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that "By building LW to National League standard, the Stadium design is ready for us to play in the National League"? That was actually the level we were aiming for, not EFL. This EFL thing is a fantasy in your imagination, not a real aim.
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I'm surprised that there appears to be no recognition at the time, that the LW Stadium design was ready for one step up to the EFL.
The Architects clearly understood that...
It may well be that the Club's Directors at the time were happy to play in the National League.
Once again, what we are discussing is compliance with the FA's rules, irrespective of the Director's true ambitions...it's a technicality.
Also, LW was built to 4650 capacity (in excess of National League minimum capacity requirements?)...that nails it for me!
Edited by VoR at 17:03:31 on 22nd May 2022
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VoR, were you following Boro at the time? There were detailed plans and artist's drawings of exactly what was designed. Unfortunately, something rather different was actually built. We had temporary stands for a few seasons, and the stand that was finally built was nothing like the original plan. In fact, it's a different size and in a completely different pace on that side of the ground.
I'm surprised that an ardent fan like you didn't notice these details!
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1 person
Promised
Views: 305
https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/boros-stadium-dream-comes-true-3120929
=== I am a 1 in 10
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Delivered
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=== I am a 1 in 10
Edited by VS Boro at 18:17:10 on 22nd May 2022
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I took an interest, yes.
There must have been an agreed consultation process, to take us from what was presented, to what was actually built?
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Between who? Who was consulted?
Why must that have happened?
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Between the Client & the Contractor, to review the budget & assess what was achievable/buildable within the budget.
I would also expect the Contractor to request guarantee
of payment, maybe in the form of an Escrow account.
Contractors are wary of working for football clubs, because of a fear of the club going bust during the build programme & not being paid up in full for the works.
Leicester City is a prime example.
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For someone who is so sure of how the process must have gone, you appear to know very little of what actually happened. Some of the people on here remember it in great deal, so it may be a good idea for you not to make assumptions and just accept what you are being told. As Max Boyce used to say: "We know, cos we were there."
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I am just trying to be helpful by explaining the process.
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But it was NOT the process.
What you are describing is NOT what happened.
So it is not useful.
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Do you remember that Ian Neale was rhe builder, and he did not get paid what he was owed and was given the FC in lieu of some of the payment?
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And low and behold…. The contractor ended up owning the club (and ground) just 12 months later.
=== I am a 1 in 10
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I think the consultation process was something along the lines of "Shit - we've done 3 sides and run out of money" - "OK, stick a tent and some portakabins on the other side. Nobody will notice".
Then a few years later "Hey - we've found a sponsor. Whack a stand on one end of that side - but do it so that we don't have to move the portakabins".
I would stake money that's a lot closer than your careful calculation scenario.
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The "stand" which has certainly not been built to last was built to offset a capital gains tax bill as well
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Or maybe they built a stand behind one goal a smaller stand behind the other and it just happened to get to 4650 figure by chance. As that was the minimum amount of effort to put into the ground.
Only you are saying it one step from league standard cause it helps your side of the argument unless you built the ground you can’t say it was built to that standard on purpose end of story
Edited by Boro90 at 17:08:52 on 22nd May 2022
Edited by Boro90 at 17:09:06 on 22nd May 2022
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VoR is doing maths no one involved did at the time. VoR is crediting the people involved with hough processes there is no evidence were followed.
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I seem to remember that one of the criteria for the home end was that it would hold as many as the Cock and Bear end (probably without the terracing in front).
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I would be staggered if LW has turned out like it has by accident!?
If you interrogate the design, when compared with the technical requirements for membership of the National League, every item matches up precisely in detail.
So, it couldn't have happened by accident.
Maybe the Directors didn't appreciate it at the time but the Architects certainly appear to have been clued up!
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Can you remember the original plans?
Can you recall what the ground was meant to be like?
Did you know the rugby club side was originally built with a far higher back wall until Nuns mentioned it breached the ground share deal?
The ground was like me saying I am buying a Telsa and coming home with an Austin Allegro
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It happened absolutely by chance. The ground doesn't match the design, stands appeared and disappeared at regular intervals, the ground doesn't look like the artist's impression. It'was all accidental.
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That said, technically it is a well built Stadium, very cost effective, without wasting money.
It may not be what we originally expected!
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It cost more than it was meant to and failed to deliver the two things we were told we couldn't have at MP so had to move.
It was not cost effective.
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Also believe between the original plans being drawn up and us actually leaving MP the money the club got for MP was a fair bit less than had been originally thought
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Because we didn't leave when we were meant to and actually borrowed against the agreed price before it was paid.
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It's actually a lot better than some of us expected - but definitely not what we were promised!
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Just for clarification:-
Temporary structures are no longer permitted in the National, the NLN or the NLS.
The existing stand is built where it is, because that allows the new 500-seater Main Stand to be built where the dug-outs are positioned now, so I don't think that was an accident!
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It was built there because there was space there.
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That was my point. "We have a sponsor to pay - whack it on that bit of grass where it won't be in anyone's way".
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But temporary stands/stadiums are permitted in World Cup finals 😀😀
So the stand was built there and nothing to do with the commercial offices that were/are behind the dugouts.
=== I am a 1 in 10
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They are Portakabins that can easily be craned out of the way.
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And put where?
They all connect up with clubhouse and boardroom
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There's plenty of room available.
They are Portakabins.
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Where is the plenty of room to move the connected buildings too?
Have you been around that side of the ground?
Are they portakabins though? They are a specific sort of portable, temporary building.
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They can still be moved.
They don't have to be positioned on that side of the ground.
There is plenty of room behind the Home End covered terrace.
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Plenty of room? On the car park?
I think people (including you?) Have said the temporary building are past thier use by date, others have said they are falling to bits.
Can those particular ones be moved without falling to bits?
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But you keep saying it can be done.
I have been questioning it.
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You won't know until you try to move them?
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Or not take the risk and leave them there for five years before we move.
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So why weren’t they moved?
Where stand is not is ridiculous
If more seats needed in future then they could then be put where the seating is now.
As for “future proof”
Where is disabled viewing area?
Where is “no zone” between segregation?
=== I am a 1 in 10
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The new 500-seater Main Stand will have other facilities built on behind the seating deck & would probably be two-storey at the rear. There is more room available where the dug-outs are positioned.
Also, the existing 500-seater stand could be then given over to Away supporters, as necessary.
Yes, disabled facilities need to be reviewed. With segregation in place, these facilities should be available to both Home & Away supporters.
There is segregation already in place by the Away turnstiles. There is a double fence arrangement, with a buffer zone in between.
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The new 500 seater stand will not take up any space, because it will not built anywhere outside your imagination. We don't need one, and will not need one for the foreseeable future. You seem to struggle with that concept.
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There will not be a new 500 seater, two storey stand with other facilities built by Boro at LW.
There.
That's the reality.
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VoR is not big on reality.
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There is no buffer zone - temporary barriers are used
If ground built as future proof these are requirements at any level but not in the ground
=== I am a 1 in 10
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There is a buffer zone.
There are two fences with a neutral zone between them.
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I am sure there is a permanent double-fence arrangement next to the Away turnstiles, with a buffer zone in between?
In full view of the Police/Security Control Room, situated above the Away End food kiosk.
The Police/Security Control Room is an EFL requirement.
Edited by VoR at 20:04:01 on 22nd May 2022
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Nope - one permanent fence - barriers moved when needed.
I
=== I am a 1 in 10
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How sure are you on that?
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Pretty sure.
There is certainly temporary barriers used every time there is segregation in place. Sort of takes up half a "pen".
There may be a double barrier, but the gap is about 1 meter which is by no means sufficient to police / keep spectators apart.....hence need for temporary barriers.
=== I am a 1 in 10
Edited by VS Boro at 20:39:21 on 22nd May 2022
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I don't think there has been extra barriers every time we have segregated.
I am 90% sure there are two fences, they may be about 2 metres apart but I am not sure how wide they need to be.
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The Away End will be sized to ensure a minimum 15% of the Stadium capacity, to comply with FA Cup requirements for Away supporters.
Nothing at LW has been designed & built by chance, it has all been carefully planned.
Edited by VoR at 17:13:17 on 22nd May 2022
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Really cause the original plans and what was built are different
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I would be astonished if architects were involved given how basic the stands are and that the Boro only have one road access.
There would have been no need until the mythical main stand was built.
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The Architects would have been involved to produce concept plans & layouts, to achieve Planning Permission.
Also, to ensure compliance with the Safety at Sports Grounds Act & to interpret the requirements of the Green Guide, (the Design Guide for Sports Stadia).
The three stand structures will be Sub-Contractor designed, to ensure best cost was achieved at the build stage.
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Have you ever seen the concept plan it looks nothing like what was built!
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It was probably realised that the actual build had to be changed to bring it back within budget?
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But you just said everything was careful planned on purpose so how can the main stand be a percentage of the capacity if the capacity is subject to change after plans are made ?
Edited by Boro90 at 17:17:33 on 22nd May 2022
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They would still work within the set capacity, it's just how you vary the design to stay within those parameters.
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I sort of weirdly respect you VOR you argue things that you probably actually have zero proof of actually knowing, I’m guessing you just think you know and you must spend so much time on Google researching things to sound smart on this forum.
You really are a character
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So therefore any architect drawings are irrelevant to what was built!
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They would only be concept drawings.
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Yes the tent seating stand was definitely but to league standard lol
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Don’t think Liberty way was built with the intention of it being one step from football league at all. When it was built it had a tent and no seating stand.
We HAD to build the stand to meet conference criteria so it wasn’t at the level you were saying at all. If we wouldn’t have got to the point of needing that stand would Neale have built it ??
Edited by Boro90 at 15:16:50 on 22nd May 2022
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And I believe the changing rooms were subject to complain by visiting teams.
=== I am a 1 in 10
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A good point but I believe the intention was there, we just appear to have run out of money!?
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Doesn’t matter about intention it wasnt one step from league standard as you said
I would say as with all things people in power took the cheap option
Edited by Boro90 at 15:23:47 on 22nd May 2022
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The only way it looks that any new ground could happen would presumably by applying for grants, which presumably would come with conditions such as providing for community use etc, so any new ground if achieved would be very basic
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And a minor issue ;)
WHERE.?
STadiaSafe had enough problems finding land (Greenmoor Road, Bermuda, Nuns Land) and probably without the involvement of Stocker Boro would now be homeless.
=== I am a 1 in 10
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Before Stocker we were going to our own ground, no share, no hassle.
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I’ve heard we looking at the Pingles, not the actual pingles though the piece of grass with two pitches on opposite the enterance across the brook from Duvalls and next to the old boys club building.
That’s what I have heard and all I said was…. Where do you park lol
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Think Boro were offered that in the 1970s.
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George Eliot School, Oakwood School, the industrial estate.
Ground only for essential parking.
---
Hope is not a plan.
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Pingles.
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Private car park, can’t see them allowing it and blocking access to the leisure centre on a Saturday afternoon can’t see ego wanting their car park blocked either
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Thought the car park at Pingles was a council one.
Either way, we can cross that bridge when we get to it.
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I believe it is a council one actually but then wouldn’t you change that if their was a football ground over the road, like I said can’t see them wanting to block the towns leisure centre. You get a few complaints for a couple of weeks and that car park will quickly go to no leisure centre no park.
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Can’t see the old running track being a starter for a new ground, wouldn’t be suitable for several reasons
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The biggest obstacle is paying for it.
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Depends if it is pay and display, for example. Like the one round the corner next to the church.
Think St Ives' car park is shared with a leisure centre.
Maybe even Woking's.
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It is but the proposed ground is on the other side of the road
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OK sorry we will cross that road when we get to it "-)
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The old Harriers running track - I think known as Gala Fields
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Yes I know where it is. I was trying to make joke after saying we will cross that bridge then you saying it was the other side of the road.
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Got the joke and quite good TBF but was confirming location
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OK, didn't think it needed confirming as it had already been mentioned several times.
Does it make a difference
If one needs to cross a road to get from car park to ground?
Also, there is lots of land there between old running track and the road, maybe parking can go there.
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Car parking at the Ricoh isn’t great.
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Agreed, never understand why we build new Stadiums in this Country without adequate parking, it’s not even as if our public transport is up to much as an alternative to using the car
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I Believe there are laws governing this where maximum parking is based on stadium capacity and is intentionally less than requirements. The regulations specify easy access to public transport (in the case of Coventry Arena there is a train station).
Its part of the initiative to cut car usage BUT leads to cars being parked all over the place.
I have memory of something like "Section 19"??? where there had to be a bus service.
(Guess). If Boro were to build a 6000 stadium, then car park facilities would be needed for 1000 spectators ;)
=== I am a 1 in 10
Edited by VS Boro at 10:50:53 on 24th May 2022
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Wasn’t it stated that the station at the Ricoh couldn’t be used on matchday’s as the platforms were not big enough, another example of building a new ground and then not making adequate provision for people to get to the Stadium
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The station at the Ricoh is used on matchdays.
I go on the train to watch Cov at the Butts & the local train is packed on matchdays, with Sky Blues supporters who live in Nuneaton.
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We need to stop these trains then and stop them escaping Nuneaton, if they all supported Nuneatonborofc instead we could get into the EFL :))
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But then we would need an extra 500 seats - and someone would need to look up the floodlight requirements!
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Greg, listen!
We need THE PLANS to be put in place...NOTHING MORE...has that not sunk in yet!?
When & if the time comes, the FA will need to see proof of our intentions (THE PLANS)...they need to see that we are not only complying with their Membership Rules but also that our proposals meet their technical requirements.
SIMPLES!
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"Have faith Grasshopper"...
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Northampton Town's Stadium at Sixfields has car parking based on one parking space for every sixteen spectators.
That was the Planning requirement, which is variable from place to place.
One in sixteen is a strict requirement.
Sixfields has a good bus service.
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So how do you get sixteen people in one car ? Exactly my point, build a new ground and not have enough parking
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It's about the football club developing a viable Travel Plan, that can be presented to the Planners.
It depends on the availability of public transport.
Local Authority Planning Departments encourage the use of public transport, so each case is taken on its own merits.
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Not much land if that’s the old running track site
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Looks like a similar site, if not slightly bigger, than the current ground.
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Hope is not a plan.
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That would be good.
There needs to be enough land to comfortably build a 5000 capacity Stadium (preferably 6000 capacity)...to future-proof the Boro in the event of a change in the Membership Rules for playing in the EFL.
When Hednesford Town built their new Stadium, the requirement for playing in the EFL was 6000 capacity, including 1000 seats.
That was subsequently reduced to 5000 capacity, including 1000 seats but what is to say that it cannot be increased again in the future?
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Re: York promoted
Views: 338
If anyone was ever to write a book entitled ' how to move grounds and get it wrong ' they only really need to use boro as a reference . Almost anything that could be got wrong has been at some point .
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2 people
Re: York promoted
Views: 325
That's the site of the old running track.
It's a decent sized piece of land.
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Re: York promoted
Views: 360
What has amazed me for years is the land Manor Park School is located on.
I know some (the quadrants I believe) is being used for education but most is just let to rot.
That said, I would imagine the land is prime building land and way out of the reach.
=== I am a 1 in 10
Edited by VS Boro at 13:33:39 on 22nd May 2022
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Re: York promoted
Views: 331
Personally I think the best place for a ground is around the Bermuda area where we were looking years ago but couldn’t for reason about air pollution or something even though people work up there for 40 hours a week.
Plenty of room, away from the town, plenty of room to build for when VOR takes us to the football league, makes sense to me, get the club out the town and into some space
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1 person
Re: York promoted
Views: 329
I agree.
=== I am a 1 in 10
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Re: York promoted
Views: 335
I think all that land has gone now - at the time it was said the land was contaminated.
That’s why they are going to Council now.
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Re: York promoted
Views: 334
Probably just always thought it a good idea having a ground up there.
Plenty of room for a ground and a car park, away from pubs to get people to drink in the club house which I would spend extra money on to make people want to go, then for away fans you have McDonalds, kfc, subway, a petrol station with a greggs, a couple of restaurants and even a couple of hotels all very close.
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Re: York promoted
Views: 391
The size of a new Stadium & the facilities provided, will dictate the level at which we can play at within the Pyramid.
The supporters need to understand that fact.
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Re: York promoted
Views: 316
The results we get will dictate it more.
-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
How bright should floodlights be in the Conference?
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Re: York promoted
Views: 341
Understand that, I just find VOR’s view of boro fascinating cause it seems so weird to me. He seems to think we need a all seater championship stadium for our massive fanbase and there is money everywhere coming in. I understand the push to improve the club but why would you want to get promoted with this current manager and set up - won’t last 5 mins in conference north (like we didn’t the last time) and to even think about getting to conference is a laughable.
When in fact we don’t have a massive fanbase anymore and going by history with the amount of times we have had money issue if I was a sensible person I would say “there’s never been money in this town to back a football team”
Edited by Boro90 at 13:13:36 on 22nd May 2022
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Re: York promoted
Views: 329
I have never said that!
That is the spin you like to put on what I say, to ridicule me?
I am clearly struggling to get my message through to you!
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Re: York promoted
Views: 340
A new football ground should have the land available within the boundary walls to comfortably accomodate a minimum 5000 capacity stadium (including 1000 seats), preferably 6000 capacity (including 1000 seats), (the FA's rules could change in the future), to allow membership of the EFL.
Anything less than that would condemn the Boro to a future life in non-league football...I'm sure the fans will not thank the Owner for that!?
Which bit ?? How I read the last sentence is we should be aiming for football league and we wouldn’t thank the owner if we didn’t everything else I bring up is points you have made many times across your many many many posts
Edited by Boro90 at 13:18:34 on 22nd May 2022
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Re: York promoted
Views: 333
They are the rules we are playing by, unless we opt out & settle for less...that is the Owner's judgement call.
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Re: York promoted
Views: 257
We will never be in the Football League. It’s just not worth it. Boro will never have the money or the fan base or the leadership off the pitch to get there. Nationwide North is the best Boro can do perhaps with the occasional spell in the National League.
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Re: York promoted
Views: 270
The whole dynamic will change when the National League becomes League Three.
Playing in the EFL will then become a more realistic possibility.
That is why the decisions made by the Club now will have an impact in the future.
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Re: York promoted
Views: 275
"That is why the decisions made by the Club now will have an impact in the future."
You mean like deciding to win enough games to be promoted?
One simple decision that we tried and it was a dismal failure was to go full time professional. If we start from a point of staying part time, then National (or EFL 3, maybe in the future) will be a non-starter unless we want to be whipping boys. Therefore, let's agree that National North is the highest level we should realistically aim for. Does that seem sensible?
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Re: York promoted
Views: 258
I disagree being full-time was a dismal failure.
the Failure (perhaps due to finance) was the owner not running the club properly and changing direction.
if the first (and only truly) season of being full-time the club missed out of play-offs due to point deduction, played some great football and had many class players.
Big difference then was players left to better themselves; Now the leave because not good enough.
NOT SAYING I BELIEVE NBFC SHOULD RETURN TO FULL TIME
=== I am a 1 in 10
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Re: York promoted
Views: 257
SPOT ON vs.
haven't got all day to troll through the massive thread
can you just tell me where the proposed site is for any new ground, cheers
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Re: York promoted
Views: 231
Negotiating with Council for old running track opposite Pingles - called Gala field.
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thankyou
Views: 235
cheers for that bud.
the foundry in front of it used to face onto caldwell rd.
the name escapes me.
i thought it was a suitable site a long time ago.
*have now read one or two posts on it
there seems to be parking issues apparently.
interesting ambitious plan in my humble opinion
if LW cant be sorted once and for all then go for it....if viable
surely there must be irons in the fire to even contemplate it ?
* i can tell you about fifty posts i havent read on it from you know who. :-)
just does my head in. i dont mind reading sensible debate
DUNNS foundry ???? i think
Edited by Joe at 15:02:35 on 23rd May 2022
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Re: York promoted
Views: 231
Are we actually negotiating for it, or is that just a story that's going around?
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Re: York promoted
Views: 225
great minds eh. just commented on it
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Re: York promoted
Views: 275
Yes, I think most Boro supporters agree that the National League North is a realistic target...& possibly remaining as a part-time football club.
That is where the dilemma arises & to understand that we have to look once again at the FA's guidance & their definitions.
The NLN (Step 6) is the lowest level of 'elite' football.
The SLPC (Step 7) is the highest level of 'recreational' football.
So do we want to be an 'elite' football club, with the financial pressures & increased ambition that brings?...or do we want to remain as a 'recreational' football club & have less financial pressure & lesser ambitions?
We could go either way.
If we are forced to leave LW, by eviction & are faced with somehow raising the finance to build a new football ground, somewhere in Nuneaton, making that choice between 'elite' or 'recreational' is fundamental to our decision making.
If we were happy to play at Step 8, we could build a small Stadium, with a minimum capacity of 1300 & limited facilities & become a second-tier 'recreational' football club, or we could even drop to the levels below?...
If we chose to aim higher & retain our ambition of being an 'elite' football club, that would be a greater challenge.
What we must remember is that the FA's membership rules will dictate the requirements at each level.
So, clear thinking is needed going forward...we have to plan our progress within the Pyramid properly.
Edited by VoR at 11:26:38 on 23rd May 2022
Edited by VoR at 11:47:46 on 23rd May 2022
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Re: York promoted
Views: 260
This present club,which is masquerading as Nuneaton Borough,is the perfect example of a recreational club.
It is Sunday League.
63--13--12--38--73--117= 50*/189
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1 person
Re: York promoted
Views: 348
They’ve got to get the land first and persuade the land owner to sell it them.
Then they’ve got to negotiate for any fixtures and fittings from Liberty way which don’t belong to us.
Will take a while
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Re: York promoted
Views: 345
Would have thought they have to get the money first, where that will come from god knows
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Re: York promoted
Views: 339
Yep and council will want compensating
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Re: York promoted
Views: 338
The next 5 years will pass very quickly.
The key to all of this is the funding of the project.
No funding agreement, no new Stadium...all pie-in-the-sky!
Time wasted even talking about it!
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Re: York promoted
Views: 340
Time wasted even talking about it!
Now, we are in agreement
=== I am a 1 in 10
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Re: York promoted
Views: 395
Agreed but main issue I have heard currently is car parking so quite a small but also expensive issue
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Re: York promoted
Views: 400
I think that’s right although goodness knows how we will pay for land and construction????
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Re: York promoted
Views: 414
Why do you keep going on about this, no one but you cares
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Re: York promoted
Views: 409
Give him a break mate he only just found out today that you can Google Nuneaton Borough and what Wikipedia is
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Re: York promoted
Views: 432
who at the club do you think could implement and follow through on these plans?
There only seems to be a chairman, owner, secretary and events manager.
Great for setting top junior section, new academy, tribute bands and darts tournaments.
=== I am a 1 in 10
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Re: York promoted
Views: 420
There are plenty of other people who are involved at the club without an official title. Also possible to outsource work to people more experienced
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Hope is not a plan.
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Re: York promoted
Views: 186
This seems to be an endless thread that has nothing to do with York after the 1st few posts.
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1 person
That's how we roll nowadays.
Views: 205
Start any thread on here and Raisins will steer it round to floodlights and the EFL eventually.
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Re: That's how we roll nowadays.
Views: 192
50k+ views of this thread.
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Re: That's how we roll nowadays.
Views: 136
Not much about York though is there.
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1 person
Re: York promoted
Views: 214
LOL read the last but one post :-)
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Re: York promoted
Views: 184
Welcome to the fans forum
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Re: York promoted
Views: 454
It will be a big issue after 2027
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has anyone heard how York got on
Views: 352
No text
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Re: has anyone heard how York got on
Views: 302
Were they playing, Joe? I'm surprised no-one started a thread on here about it :)
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2 people
Previous thread: Peterborough Sports Ground Improvements by VoR24/5 22:14Tue May 24 22:14:55 2022view thread
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