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What about our history?
Views: 1172
What are the opinions from people on here regarding H&H starting a new club if Boro are not liquidated before the 1st March deadline?
My understanding is AFC Nuneaton would not be a continuation of Boro and therefore have no ties to the history, badge, colours or location of Boro.
Please correct me if my understanding is wrong.
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Re: What about our history?
Views: 902
Bury AFC started up in late 2019. Bury FC has still not been liquidated, the administrator seems to be dragging out the process. The reason appears that after a certain length of time, no forensic investigation into the folding of the club can be undertaken and therefore any criminal activity that may have taken place eg. missing funds, of which there were were numerous examples, will not be investigated.
What is now the new BuryFC, effectively Bury AFC, with a change of name, started in Tier 10. The reason, as others have said as it is in truth a new club.
For some reason however, the FA allowed the new club to take the old name immediately (normally have to wait 5 years) together with its history heritage etc.
That’s why some say it’s the old club reincarnated, others that it isn’t.
Personally, and I’ve followed Bury as an EFL club for over 50 years, I’d rather stay in the lower reaches of non league as a fan owned club than have all the risks of outside investors.
Maybe because our last to owners were at best extremely dodgy if not considerably worse. We do however seem to attract the worst, a certain Mr Hilton offering to take over the club until moving on to Scunthorpe. Luckily for them, he was, should we say found out, and moved on.
Just be very wary as to what you wish for, a wealthy benevolent owner who is also a fan would be excellent. Unfortunately, not many around.
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2 people
Re: What about our history?
Views: 832
I believe a 'forensic' investigation can take place going back 3 years from the date of liquidation of the old club.
I also believe that 5 years is only a guide & not a hard & fast rule.
The key driver is to demonstrate to the FA that the new club has fulfilled their requirements to assume the heritage of the old/former club, which to their credit Bury AFC have successfully accomplished.
Edited by VoR at 11:46:48 on 6th February 2024
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Re: What about our history?
Views: 958
My understanding of the present situation is that for the FA to consider AFC Nuneaton as being a continuation of our old club, will require Boro Leisure to be liquidated before 31st March.
This will allow AFC Nuneaton to be placed at a higher level in the Pyramid.
If Boro Leisure are still in existence on 31st March, then the FA will consider AFC Nuneaton to be a completely new club & place them at a lower level in the Pyramid.
I believe it is an FA technicality & I stand to be corrected if my interpretation of the situation is incorrect?
Edited by VoR at 09:03:08 on 6th February 2024
Edited by VoR at 09:03:43 on 6th February 2024
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Re: What about our history?
Views: 991
Agree...
IMO, not a continuation of Boro without some sort Fan input....
For all we know H&H might just be Hobbyists with a bit of dosh to fullfill a dream of
owning a Football Club, where Fans will be seen as "Customers"...
AFC Nuneaton ?, may as well call it "Hollidays Hornets" and play in Claret and Gold...
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Re: What about our history?
Views: 984
There was a poll on Boro Chat last night. Whilst I find these things futile I was surprised by the result.
29& - Fan Owned
67% - Investor
2% - Uncertain
2% - AN investor that actually has money.
(bottom 2 added later).
So, 70% wants a club where money is thrown at the club........ Had that ever failed?
(if taken as representative) it shows supporters want success irrespective of dangers and history.
A comment
"This proves a point so hope people trust the investors and now let them do there work otherwise we’re gonna have 2 clubs which is never gonna work. Stuart Elliott and Nuneaton Borough Supporters' Co-Operative hope this makes you understand the fans idea for how they want the club to be run. So let’s work together and get it done with the investors."
To me; these sort of things mean nothing.
If two clubs start, the success will be based on marker forces and eventually one will fail.
>>>> Former Nuneaton Boro fan <<<<
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Re: What about our history?
Views: 983
Nuneaton Boro are no more.
Boro Leisure were a company that happened to run a football club.
According to Andy Walsh, a club must show connection (wrong word) to a defunct club and this is usually after 5 years
Thats my understanding. Assuming one day Boro Leisure will be would up then their "ties" with the football club ends.
There is nothing to stop anyone starting a club
Thats my understanding
My view is Nuneaton Boro is dead and the name should be "left to rest".
Any new club that could claim the history would be one owned by the supporters and even then I would not want the suffix Boro to be formally applied.
>>>> Former Nuneaton Boro fan <<<<
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Re: What about our history?
Views: 631
The word you are looking for is continuity
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Re: What about our history?
Views: 931
I'm actually happy with the name afc . Fans including me will still call it the boro and that can be the nickname but i feel we need a fresh start without so much baggage . I feel the H&H club may give us a better chance of that than a Co-op run club despite the risks . I would like them to say we're not a continuation of the boro but an alternative for Boro fans to support if they want to . There are clubs around who have taken that approach . Scarborough , Bromsgrove are two ,there are others .
Edited by almost average 2 at 09:49:41 on 6th February 2024
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Re: What about our history?
Views: 861
AFC Nuneaton sounds modern & has a fresh feel to the name.
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Re: What about our history?
Views: 872
Let’s be realistic our Nuneaton Boro is dead and gone forever, AFC Nuneaton at step 6/7 playing seven miles out of town in a different county will never be the Boro.
I wish the few that go along and watch this new entity all the success and excitement in the world but it is definitely not for me.
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Re: What about our history?
Views: 876
My view is that Nuneaton Borough Football Club should now be peacefully & respectfully laid to rest.
It was a great non-league club & we have wonderful memories of the good times to fall back on, chronicled by our very impressive heritage project.
I believe we should give the younger generations a chance to build their own new club now, without being forced to carry the burden/baggage heaped upon them by past events in our history.
I will still look forward to watching & cheering on the Boro at HLR, watching AFC Nuneaton & I wish everyone well in their aspirations for the future.
Just my thoughts!
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Re: What about our history?
Views: 859
I really don't know the best option (or even the definition of success).
We all know the problems faced by any new club - probably playing out of Nuneaton, no stadium (or location) in nuneaton identified and then there is the cost to build a stadium.
I didnt hear any substance last Wednesday. Who is going to pay; where are the sponsors (particularly national ones).
When they spoke of FL...............that to me was all the alarm bells I needed.
Its more likely that a supporters run club would have backing and sponsorship from local people and be looked on more sympathetic by the council (long time ago, but how Northampton managed to build sixfields)
>>>> Former Nuneaton Boro fan <<<<
Edited by VS Boro at 10:07:24 on 6th February 2024
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Re: What about our history?
Views: 887
IMO, neither solution has any real substance at the moment & I am sure the Co-op's Steering Group could drive a bus through H&H's initial proposals.
That said, most supporters could equally question the Co-op's position in all of this at the moment.
It is a very unsatisfactory situation for all Boro fans but understandably it is being driven by time pressures to get a new club underway & maintain momentum into the new season.
Edited by VoR at 10:12:06 on 6th February 2024
Edited by VoR at 10:12:36 on 6th February 2024
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Re: What about our history?
Views: 891
Boro fans are not going to accept a club in the Midland FL long term . They are going to expect the club to be aiming for step 3 as a minimum and for that there going to need cash and without investors where's it going to come from .
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Re: What about our history?
Views: 883
Afraid to say that they will no say in the matter will they ? Unless the 500 faithful dip into their pockets for a grand apiece. That amount should see them through two or three seasons.
I keep asking as to the reason for the decision making behind this catastrophe.
127–45-26-56–171-198…..160*/381
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Re: What about our history?
Views: 885
It is indeed a right mess
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Re: What about our history?
Views: 864
I wonder how many other clubs are in a mess?
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Re: What about our history?
Views: 869
Lots of club have lost their ground for one reason or another. However I feel Boro are unique given the history of financial failure and the loss was sudden.
The sort of ground that may be possible IMO is what Runcorn (past Alliance winners) have.
I also think a millstone around Boro neck is this perceived idea (from brief spells in history) that Boro are a level 5 club.
Many downgraded to level 6, but recent history really points at level 7 (SLP).
Perhaps now is the time level 8 (with hope) of level 7. is the true level to aspire to - Joining the likes of Hednesford and Hinckley and Corby.
>>>> Former Nuneaton Boro fan <<<<
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Re: What about our history?
Views: 909
I think Andy Walsh's comments apply to a new club that seek at some future date to assume the Boro name & tradition/heritage.
The enactment of the Football Governance Bill & the appointment of the Football Regulator later this year will give more clarity, at which point it will become subject to the law.
Edit:
The immediate consideration for the FA is revolving around whether Boro Leisure will still exist on 31st March & how they view AFC Nuneaton as being a 'continuation' of the old club or not, for the purposes of which level they place the new club at in the Pyramid.
Edited by VoR at 09:14:19 on 6th February 2024
Edited by VoR at 09:14:43 on 6th February 2024
Edited by VoR at 09:15:55 on 6th February 2024
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Re: What about our history?
Views: 822
Thanks for clearing a few things up VoR.
I have tried to understand what AW alerted everyone at the Co-Op meeting; the club would be able to apply to change their name after five years, but should two clubs emerge from the demise of Boro, then the FA would consider the club with the largest number of supporters as the continuation of the old club and where their heritage now lies.
Would that be right and is the 31st March deadline only a requirement to determine the league which the new club will start?
I seem to remember that AW mentioned the 1st Feb was only a deadline to join Step 6.
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Re: What about our history?
Views: 801
From what we've been told 1st Feb is the deadline for a step 7 club applying for promotion to step 6 but a new or phoenix club has till 1st March to apply .
It was definitely said that in the event of two new clubs the FA would make the decision on which is a continuation not sure it's just based on who has the most fans but may be right .
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1 person
Re: What about our history?
Views: 766
That will potentially determine the level at which each new club is placed in the Pyramid.
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Re: What about our history?
Views: 802
I think it's the 1st March for "something"
... and the 31st March for "something else"
That's what's been explained to me... I think 😂
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Re: What about our history?
Views: 646
1st of March is the deadline for a new club to apply for step 5 or 6. 31st March is for Step 7 or lower.
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Re: What about our history?
Views: 569
“In accordance with FA rules, City of Liverpool FC has until 31st March 2024 to provide a compliant Ground Share Agreement with another club with the necessary grade to maintain its place at Step 4 of the National League System.”
That's a statement put out by the NPL reference CoL FC who are having ground issues . Think you must have applied by 1st March then have until 31st March to have everything in place . This applies to the non - league system so step 1 to 6 .
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Re: What about our history?
Views: 650
Yes, that is correct.
31st March is the latest date to confirm to the FA your playing arrangements for next season.
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Re: What about our history?
Views: 802
The 31st March is the latest date each year for clubs to submit/confirm their playing arrangements/stadium location/finances for FA approval, ahead of the new season..
Edited by VoR at 11:23:26 on 6th February 2024
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Re: What about our history?
Views: 792
I thought the County League makes those decisions below Step 6?
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Re: What about our history?
Views: 803
That’s my understanding
Certain levels need fa approval; lower is down to the club.
Irrespective of which league - firm foundations for a club is needed.
PERHAPS - more chance of higher level if 12 months to do things properly is needed ——- any league/organisation is going to look at what’s happened at the Boro.
>>>> Former Nuneaton Boro fan <<<<
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Re: What about our history?
Views: 798
The key driver now is to liquidate Boro Leisure as soon as possible, so that the FA can properly assess the merits of the new club.
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Re: What about our history?
Views: 769
The FA will delegate the responsibility to the County FA's/County Leagues, due to the sheer scale of the amount of work involved, there are dozens of County Leagues.
Edited by VoR at 11:38:47 on 6th February 2024
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Ref. StripesForMe
Views: 821
I and sure Andy will advise and I expect/hope the coop will give outline of their meeting last night once the statement has been checked.
We knew this meeting was to take place - I have no idea what H&H have done - are they even contactable
Stripes for me put a question out - has it been sent and/or responded to?
>>>> Former Nuneaton Boro fan <<<<
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Question to GH consortium - UNANSWERED since Wednesday
Views: 893
Not sure how many questions have been asked to GH.
The following question was submitted by me on Wednesday evening straight after the meeting.
I requested a follow-up on Monday but still no answer to the following.
Please ignore if you are referring to something else but gave me an opportunity to update the status of my question.
My question: "Gary stated they are not in it to make a profit & are in it for the love of the game & in the best interests of the town of Nuneaton. So when they get a ground in Nuneaton are they willing to hand ownership of it to the fans (Co-op perhaps) so if they walk away the ground belongs to the town/ fans."
** JUST TO CLARIFY ** I don't mean give it away, but recoup what it cost through the numerous revenue streams mentioned last night , national sponsorships & sporting events etc.
It was repeatedly said they are not in it for a profit & what a legacy that would be.
OTHERWISE IN MY OPINION WE ARE GOING BACK TO THE SCENARIO OF NOT OWNING OUR OWN GROUND. & IN A FEW YEARS TIME THERE WILL BE ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE TO BUILD A NEW ONE IN NUNEATON.
WE HAVE ONE SHOT AT THIS TO ENSURE THE CLUB CONTINUES FOR OUR KIDS & GRANDKIDS.
THERE IS NO ROOM FOR ERROR IN THE DECISION WE CURRENTLY FACE.
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3 people
Re: Question to GH consortium - UNANSWERED since Wednesday
Views: 905
Seems like H&H are still in the process of setting a club up and we're already talking about taking it from them when they do 😂
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1 person
Re: Question to GH consortium - UNANSWERED since Wednesday
Views: 829
communication to the fans have been awful for years, no matter who as owned the club, i dont expect it to be any different now from private investors again. The only way you get transparency is if its fan owned or part owned
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2 people
Re: Question to GH consortium - UNANSWERED since Wednesday
Views: 802
The best solution to that KB, IMO, is for a new Stadium to be built at Gala Field, NBBC to retain ownership of the land & grant a 100-year.
A similar arrangement to that currently being enjoyed at The Butts by Coventry RFC, where the land is still owned by Coventry City Council & Cov are funding the proposed re-development of the BPA to 10,000 capacity to allow the Club to qualify for playing in the Premiership.
That is the most logical & viable solution for me, unless a return to LW is possible?
Edited by VoR at 13:38:54 on 6th February 2024
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Re: Question to GH consortium - UNANSWERED since Wednesday
Views: 782
It may be for any new football club but may not be for all other parties.
>>>> Former Nuneaton Boro fan <<<<
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Re: Ref. StripesForMe
Views: 876
I would consider maybe that H&H's priority at the moment is determining the current status of Boro Leisure?
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Re: What about our history?
Views: 885
I think Andy was wrong on 1st Feb. Its 1st March
>>>> Former Nuneaton Boro fan <<<<
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Re: What about our history?
Views: 627
1st of Feb is the date for a continuation club level 5 or 6, 1st March for a new club.
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Re: What about our history?
Views: 840
That is only my interpretation Fromage, I could be wrong?
The FA have to start from somewhere & I believe that the situation with Boro Leisure is creating some uncertainty at the moment.
We will know more once the 31st March deadline has passed.
Edit:
If you want more information, it is worth reading up about Bury FC's situation & how their Pheonix club Bury AFC were able to regain the status of playing under the name of Bury FC.
Edited by VoR at 10:32:53 on 6th February 2024
Edited by VoR at 10:35:23 on 6th February 2024
Edited by VoR at 10:35:59 on 6th February 2024
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Re: What about our history?
Views: 789
Thanks VoR.
Here's a link which could be interesting for some.
/buryafc.uk/shakers-community-faqs/
How do supporters feel about travelling to watch AFC Nuneaton? Would they still go to watch them regardless of what league they are in? Do they want the name changed back after 5 years? Would they buy shares to vote on decision making and support the construction of a ground within Nuneaton?
I think these are the sort of questions which H&H and the Co-Op should be asking supporters. Without knowing their feelings then how can they plan for things?
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Re: What about our history?
Views: 788
That's a good find Fromage & I agree with your sentiments.
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Re: What about our history?
Views: 916
What ever happens and what our club is officially called , it has been and will always be known as the Boro.
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Re: What about our history?
Views: 579
‘Our’ club is dead.
The owners of a new club will be desperate to leverage the fanbase, history and memories of previous incarnations to have any chance of success, but it’ll never be the same ‘Boro’.
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Re: What about our history?
Views: 548
Never, especially after a few years borrowing a ground in another town
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Re: What about our history?
Views: 905
That probably is a true statement but may only sit well with us oldies. The club is now in the hands of the younger ones and unfortunately I feel that today’s situation will be revisited within a decade.
127–45-26-56–171-198…..160*/381
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Re: What about our history?
Views: 875
We've got a particularly bad history but there are many examples of clubs who have been funded who haven't gone bust .
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Re: What about our history?
Views: 855
True. But you would think that after sixty years someone would have thought about doing things a different way. Like doing things the right way.
127–45-26-56–171-198…..160*/381
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2 people
Re: What about our history?
Views: 872
If you look at the flip side of the coin.
It is us oldies that are weighed down with this baggage.
Perhaps we should give the younger generations a chance & let them enjoy creating their own new experiences & memories following a new club, free from all of the past tribulations.
As boro44 says, it will always be the Boro for the fans.
Edited by VoR at 09:20:37 on 6th February 2024
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