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THE REAL PROBLEM AT STAINES
Views: 3936
Guys , I have been observing this situation from afar as a Chertsey Town fan with a background in the private equity game.(30 years)
I decided to dig a little bit deeper into the situation as I’ve been unable to understand such a dramatic turn in fortunes for such a large local club, It became obvious that there was an interest with the stadium, this first came to my attention when I read the Non League Paper last year SWANS IN STADIUM BATTLE I distinctly remember. I began to read about another party involved The Thames Club, who I decided to look into, I can tell you that it would be an interesting exercise for ALL of you concerned about the football club to check out The Thames Clubs last 10 years of accounts, since they bought the freehold down there. This information is all publicly available.
It makes for very worrying reading, if you don’t know how to do this I can give you a brief overview.
1. They have never turned a profit and lose literally millions every single year. (Despite recently being named one of the best businesses in Spelthorne)
2. Money is being transferred out of the business as management fees as related party transactions to people who also directly run the Thames Club.
What is so bad about this?? , after all if they want to continue to finance a failing business that’s up to them it’s their money right ?
Wrong.And here lies the problem, The Thames Club is financed by a venture Capital Company called Downing LLP. This means that it sits in a group an asset in a group alongside other assets that Downings Investors are directly investing in. Now who are Downings investors ? Unfortunately they are likely retail investors, normal working people, ploughing in their hard earned money, pensions and savings, and what are Downing and The Thames Club doing with it ? They appear to be continuing to finance a failing business in order for them to pull huge consultancy fees out of the other side for the very people that run the Thames Club. It might also be interesting for you guys to check the name of the guy who is chairman of the thames club and check the guy who is founder and owner of Downing. Is there a link????
Some of you might be able to see the Thames Club had a £3M loan outstanding on recent accounts and that it was recently satisfied- How are they servicing this debt when they are operating at such a loss. - A loan facility from Downings LLP unsuspecting investors once again most probably propping up their failing business year after year.
When we travelled down to you earlier in the season for our convincing 0-4 victory I was also told that The Thames Club run the bar. It got me into thinking how the hell does this club make any sort of money, the answer - it doesn’t. Your football club is a shell, with a great name, no bar, no fans((saw you got 72 last game)) and it appears attempted to being run out of business by an aggressive Venture Capital group who just want to continue what appears to be financing an operation that takes money from their investors pockets and puts it in their own.
You have to ask the question that if they are prepared to operate and make money from their investors in such a way what else are they prepared to do ?
Why was this not sorted years ago is my question , why was this not looked at , it looks like you’ve had well over a decade of papering over cracks , some relative level of success in the conference south and FA Cup but no foresight and ultimately no long term view on the club. Perhaps another case of an owner propping up not just a club but also his ego, before handing it over and watching the floor collapse beneath the next guys who took control. Looking into your previous owner the facts also state his other business Boon Building Services ltd recently when bankrupt, maybe a bit of a personality trend it would appear.
I have read through your platforms that the current owner is concentrating on spending funds on legal to rectify this, at the expense of the clubs current results, if this is true then this is something that is clearly desperately needed, I do not know the owner and have not heard of him outside of his interest at Staines, but from the ignorance displayed on here you might end up driving out the guy who is trying to save your club. You also have to understand that publicly talking about whatever they have going on might weaken the clubs position which I’m sure non of you want. These things take time and a lot of money. I would advise you guys to sit tight and look beyond the surface to get the answers that you need.
I hope you guys are able to recover and that the guys in control drive the club through this difficult patch, you might be our local rivals but I sincerely hope we will all be able to enjoy many years of derby days !
GOOD LUCK….
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Re: THE REAL PROBLEM AT STAINES
Views: 3494
This is very interesting to people like me - accountants. However, I am an accountant who is also a football supporter - a season ticket holder at Staines Town FC. The supporters have always afforded the current owner the time and space to air his views. He was part of the team of 4 that took the club over from the Boon family. Having told us of his plans for the club, none of which seem even to be a speck on the horizon, he has been silent ever since. The latest example would be the sacking of Mahrez. His record at the time of his departure was winning 4, drawing 1 and losing 1 of his last 6 games. He was given an award of performance of the month ...... and the sack. However, it was not just that, we lost the basis of a side that were starting to compete at this level. The Chairman could arrange to meet the supporters face to face; write a reasoned article in the programme; or just communicate via the supporters club. He remains silent and aloof - giving rise to the Brian Clough description of what the average football director knows about football. To achieve success as a football club, there needs to be investment - not just financial. There was a lot of hard work done pre-season to get the ground ready. There is a lot of ongoing voluntary work from loyal supporters on a regular basis. The fans are giving their investment ........
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Re: THE REAL PROBLEM AT STAINES
Views: 3238
The Thames club has been the making of and then the death of STFC. Unfortunately no sooner than it was built, Alan Boon had to make the decision sell as the debt was far too great to sustain. Sensibly he sold up to Sheffield United with the intention that the new owners would be sympathetic to the club’s needs and to make Wheatsheaf Park their base when playing in London. Sheffield United soon sold up however and it all started going down hill with no interest coming from the new owners.
The bitter truth is that the old Wheatsheaf Park with its cow shed for a main stand and ploughed field for a pitch is actually a million times better than what we have now because we actually owned the land it was built on and had a bar and function room that pulled money into the club. What we have in fact now become is a dead club walking, with our only assets now being the famous old name of Staines Town Football Club and a very nice stand to watch the game from.
Who would want to take us on now? Some credit at least must be given to Joe despite the mistakes he has made for being the only one to challenge the Thames club for all their wrongdoings. The only thing that can turn the club around now would be some kind of court ruling to give the club back what it’s lost or some very rich investors to pump at least a couple of million quid into reviving a lifeless corpse.
Edited by Wakes at 19:37:14 on 13th January 2020
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Re: THE REAL PROBLEM AT STAINES
Views: 3155
I think we must assume that when the new owners of Staines bought the club they did a proper due diligence and knew exactly what they were buying, warts and all. As supporters we need to believe they knew what they were doing. So the promises they made were either empty words and they had some other plans ..... or that they really believe they are the people to take the club forward. However, to take the club forward we need some form of consistency in the management of the team; in the playing staff who appear week on week; and in players who are competitive at the level we are playing. At present we have more changes than those available at Clapham Junction. We need to understand just what the Chairman's plans are for the club. He is the major shareholder. The supporters are the heartbeat.
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Re: THE REAL PROBLEM AT STAINES
Views: 3055
On the playing side, there seem to be a lot of new signings but these aren't improving results. Know I haven't seen the team play but this must be a concern? Also from the team sheets on twitter there have been a couple of games recently when there haven't been enough players for a full complement of substitutes? That mean losing players or injuries?
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Re: THE REAL PROBLEM AT STAINES
Views: 3071
Well this was clearly an eye opening post, I didn't quite realise the seriousness of this situation ! My question is... Where is minor shareholder Matthew Boon during these troubled times !!?!?!!
I was one of the Thames Clubs biggest supporters when the initial deal went through and It made all those years of being homeless worth it. I thought what a fantastic opportunity to improve the ground and grow together with the gym and have fantastic facilities right next door. But it is now clear from the original post that there are things happening behind the scenes that we all had no idea about !
I think we can all accept when a new manager comes in naturally they bring their own players but this current squad is being assembled under extreme circumstances, if indeed there is no playing budget I certainly commend the ownership for being able to bring in some experienced players. We can all agree by the end of last year we were bringing in literally anyone that had ever kicked a football ! At least at this stage the management team are able to bring in players that are reasonably experienced at this level. I know people expect results immediately but I think we need to give this squad a few games to settle in and learn how to play with each other.
The football club have been had over for years! I fully agree with Cherseyboy that if the owner is ploughing money into a legal battle it's fully understandable that there is no money left for on the field.
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Re: THE REAL PROBLEM AT STAINES
Views: 3103
Nice post Eggy. Agreed that the manager needs a bit of time because the biggest problem is blending all these new players into a team. It was evident in the Chipstead game that the difference between the two sides was not ability but communication - our players did not even know their own team mates' names!
I feel sorry for the manager because he has lost practically a whole team and has to rebuild halfway through the season; and that's no easy task. Seems mad when we had at last got together a team under Maz who seemed to have team spirit and were playing for the shirt. Why he was got rid of is a question for the owner.
Talking of owners, one of the most frustrating things for me is the lack of communication at the Club. It would be nice if Joe could post something every so often, such as an explanation of the change of Manager. Most of us are behind Joe and realise he is operating under very difficult circumstances. Many supporters are giving time and money to keep our beloved Club going so a bit of feedback from Joe would go a long way.
COME ON YOU SWANS!
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Re: THE REAL PROBLEM AT STAINES
Views: 3050
Give Joe a chance he's doing his best OK To keep the Swans Going
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Re: THE REAL PROBLEM AT STAINES
Views: 3021
I think the problem is that very little is heard from him therefore people have no idea what he is doing?
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Re: THE REAL PROBLEM AT STAINES
Views: 3051
Give him a chance as he is a busy man I'm life will will communicate in due course ok
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Re: THE REAL PROBLEM AT STAINES
Views: 2999
He can take as long as he wants, it's doesn't bother me. I'd assume he can relate the falling attendances and lack of understanding amongst the few fans left to the lack of information coming from himself?
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Re: THE REAL PROBLEM AT STAINES
Views: 3149
To correct a few inaccuracies:
"...lose literally millions each year" operating losses for the last 3 years for which accounts are available were £147k, £181k and £66k
Money is being transferred out of the business ..... to PEOPLE who run the Thames Club
Fees went to Downing LLP, which is owned by 5 partners. This is the ultimate owner of TC and has provided finance. Fees also went to RFL Management which has more than 1 partner
No one Director has overall control of TC so would need the approval of others to make these transfers
"Thames Club is financed by Downing LLP (correct) .. who are Downings investors? ...likely retail investors, normal working people ploughing there hard earned money...." Wrong Downing LLP is a limited partnership whose capital is provided by 5 partners. True there is another Downing company called Downing EIS that has retail investors, but all finance for Downing LLP has been provided by the 5 partners.
"... £3m loan (correct) ...... from Downing LLP unsuspecting investors" Downing LLP has 5 investors, ie the partners who, I am sure, are not unsuspecting.
I hope this clears up the libellous allegations. I see nothing in the accounts of the Thames Club or Downing LLP that can in any way be criticised.
Who am I? I am an ex supporter of Staines Town who was also a Chartered Certified Accountant, I have no connection with either the Thames Club or Downing LLP
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Re: THE REAL PROBLEM AT STAINES
Views: 2943
You are correct they did lose £147k on last years income statement. But what you are ignoring here are two fundamental things, changes in equity which allows them to inject further capital into the business as well as loan financing.
I would like you to answer how they are losing £147k but in the same year satisfied a £3m loan. It is clear millions of pounds are going into this business annually and are disappearing.
I would invite you to look at who is the person of significant control in RFL and who is the chairman of The Thames Club and was also previously the person of significant control in The Thames Club.
Downing does not have 5 Investors , Maybe you are completely unaware of how a VC structure works. The Thames Club has been part of various
Downing portfolios and funds which have been packaged and sold to retail investors, this again is publicly available information.
There is nothing libellous in reporting facts Allen, maybe it would be wise to try to look a little bit further than the end of your nose, Although I do not believe these accounts are in any way difficult to understand…..
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Re: THE REAL PROBLEM AT STAINES
Views: 3035
First point: taking the last years losses of £187k you mention, there were no changes to equity or injections of further capital, admittedly there was no interest charged on the £3m loan, but this subsidy when added to the operating loss, does not come anywhere remotely near the "literally millions every single year"
Second point: The £3m was due for settlement in December 2020, it is obvious that it would need to be rolled over or refinance in another way by Downing LLP, or an associate company before that date.
Third point: RFL Management has 4 Directors and Companies House lists the Really Fine Leisure Company (RFL) as having significant control, RFL is listed as being in the significant control of Wylva Trading, there is no person or company listed as having significant control of this company, which has 9 active Directors.
Fourth point: Downing PLC has 5 designated partners and all funds have been provided by partners, none by "retail investors, normal working people ploughing there hard earned money...."
I will not comment on your personal insults, please note that my posts have only pointed out the facts and have not included any personal comments.
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Re: THE REAL PROBLEM AT STAINES
Views: 2858
First Point - Please look once again at the previous few years accounts and explain there were no significant changes in equity. You will have to look beyond 1-2 years of filing history to understand the full picture.
The question is why is the business still operating and why would they continue to finance it as a going concern?
Second point - How are they rolling over this £3M ? Although the charge was satisfied, no new charge has been created, If they did roll this over in the traditional way you will know that they have a time line to report a new charge with companies house which they have not. Since the charge has been satisfied and no new charge has been created I would question how and what they would use to roll this over.
Id also like you to see how often they have refinanced historically since acquisition?
Third Point - Follow the trail and you will find names of people who are directors in both companies. You will find what appears to be a various obvious and glaring link to all involved parties.
Fourth Point - This point is completely incorrect, you will find that The Thames Club has sat in various Downing VCT and is a particularly bad performer. If you have trouble finding this you can simply look back historically at the annual returns where you will find the list of shareholders, within the shareholders you will find various Downing VCT , you can then look for the VCT on companies house this will allow you to look at the VCT annual report and you will see The Thames Club as part of an investment portfolio designed for retail investors.
Fifth point - I apologise my intention was not to insult you , I am simply explaining the facts and I just wanted to point out that things are not what they seem and you may have to look a little deeper. I like you have no personal interest or connection to the situation and was simply trying to make supporters aware of what appears to be going on, after all Staines is a great local football club and the past year or so must have been a very difficult watch.
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Re: THE REAL PROBLEM AT STAINES
Views: 2918
First point: I do not intend spending the time to go through 10 years of accounts, but I think you now accept that your assertion that support amounting to "literally millions every single year" is incorrect.
The question of why would they continue to finance it as a going concern, from what you are saying the business is being turned around as you suggest that the losses were far greater in past years. As 3 of the current Directors are also Directors of Downing LLP and that company has leant TC £3m Downing LLP would appear to have a close interest in the success of the club, I am unwilling to speculate why as I am only prepared to deal with published facts, as I do not want to follow you down the road of libel.
Second point: Again I will not speculate, but some companies have been known to swop debt for equity, though I am not suggesting that this has happened in this case, nor am I suggesting that there has been any wrong doing.
Third point: Yes, 3 of the 4 Directors are also Directors of the biggest investor, whilst you appear to find this sinister, I find it totally unsurprising and can see nothing wrong in this.
Fourth point: As previously mentioned I am not interested in history as, if and I say if, in the past, small investors money was used to finance TC I have no reason to think any losses were incurred and for the two years I looked at the accounts were no small investors funds were invested.
I repeat that I have seen nothing in the accounts of the Thames Club or Downing LLP that can in anyway be criticised, nor do I see any basis for conspiracy theories.
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Re: THE REAL PROBLEM AT STAINES
Views: 2860
Allen you have looked at the accounts for two years and have no interest in historical filings. Well I think I rest my case, you have no basis for any type of argument and if you had bothered to actually look into this properly you wouldn’t be throwing around accusations of libel, I’m sure your aware that falsely accusing someone of libel is defamation so you really need to do your homework.
Is there a particular reason you are trying to divert peoples attention away from historical filing of the business.If people follow the steps I mentioned in point 4 all the way back to acquisition they will clearly see retail investors have been consistently invested in this business.
You would also see that millions have been consistently invested using various different methods into a business that has never made a single penny since acquisition according to its filing history!
May I politely suggest that you do your homework before you give people an ‘experts’ opinion on filing history and also before you start throwing wild accusations of conspiracy theories and libel at simple and obvious facts that have been historically filed and reported at companies house and that everybody is very easily able to access should they wish to bother.
Good luck for the rest of the season..
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Re: THE REAL PROBLEM AT STAINES
Views: 2895
The facts speak for themselves, I do not need to go into history and I do not need to resort to personal insults.
- Losses have not been "literally millions every single year"
- Downing LLP appear to have an interest in the success of the club and are supporting it and from what you say they appear to be succeeding.
- No small investors money has been invested in the Thames Club for the past two years and if any was in the past I have no reason to think that any losses have been incurred.
- It is not unusual for an investor to have representatives on a company board, you appear to see this as sinister, I regard it as normal,.
- You allege that money is being transferred to people who run the Thames Club, this is untrue, fees are charged by other group companies, as is perfectly normal, there is no evidence to suggest that any one individual has benefited
- There is not one fact in your latest post, it is just a personal attack on me.
- As regards defamation, I have shown that your statements are incorrect, I am therefore cannot be guilty of defamation
I think this politely covers all points
Edited by allen b at 20:27:13 on 25th January 2020
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Re: THE REAL PROBLEM AT STAINES
Views: 2865
Allen I do not think this addresses anything that I have just said. You have read two from eleven entries, which proves my point that you probably need to look into things a little bit deeper to have a credible opinion. I hope that you do not take this as a personal insult I’m just repeating what you have told us in terms of what you have read.
I am surprised that you think that accounting is as simple as the P&L and as basic as losses reducing or growing. If this is the basis of your argument there is no way that we can have a sensible debate.
Again with regards to retail investors and who is financing this business you really have to read more than two years of accounts and follow the steps in point 4 that I previously made, it will then become a lot clearer to you as to who is financing and who has financed this business and you will see that all the points that I have made are accurate.
You are unable to show what is correct and what is incorrect as you have no idea about what losses I am referring to , you have no idea what the net affect of losses across the period that this property has been owned and operated by the Thames club as you have only read two years of accounts therefore there is no way that you could of proven that anything I have said is incorrect. I am telling you this because without having the historical evidence to prove otherwise this could open you to defamation.
I find it interesting that as an accountant you say that Downing are succeeding in supporting this business, surely as a professional you would not have advised them to continue supporting this loss maker. Would you advise your client to issue a £3m loan to a business like this based on its ever present losses in its filing history?
Again I strongly apologise if you feel this is a personal attack, I am sure you only mean well and you want the best for your club which is understandable, and its great to see your passion, I just feel that its important that if you are going to publicise your opinion you really need to do your homework and as I previously mentioned that means reading significantly more than the last two years of filing history.
I wish you and the club well. Great result today by the way.
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Re: THE REAL PROBLEM AT STAINES
Views: 2860
This is a rehash of your previous post and moves nothing forward. I will not respond to personal criticism.
The facts are as laid out in my last two posts, which you have not contradicted so I see no point in prolonging this debate,
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Re: THE REAL PROBLEM AT STAINES
Views: 2872
Regardless of whatever the facts are here, I find it interesting that on a Staines town fc forum, someone is backing the Thames club! I am not going to comment on a court case but what I would say is, the fact that we are even discussing this shows that there are issues and the fact a business had made significant losses three years in a row and is still operating is certainly a discussion point, I wonder if the dragons would invest in this business?
Earlier comments are taking about Joe, I think we owe Joe a huge thank you for even keeping the football club afloat, something that would have been in doubt under its previous owners.
Edited by STFCfan at 19:01:07 on 25th January 2020
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Re: THE REAL PROBLEM AT STAINES
Views: 2943
I do not intend to defend the Thames Club, merely to put forward the facts and to counter an apparent conspiracy theory. I cannot have a view on the rights or wrongs of a possible court case until the facts are known. Also, it is not unusual for a loss making business to be supported over the years, what matters is whether the losses are growing or reducing.
Edited by allen b at 20:10:09 on 25th January 2020
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Re: THE REAL PROBLEM AT STAINES
Views: 3015
I am not sure what to say really. This forum is not the right place to discuss sets of accounts. For your information I too am a retired Chartered Certified Accountant. The rights and wrongs of the differences between Staines Town FC and the Thames Club are the basis of an ongoing court case and will be decided by the courts. This is not on the relative financial strengths of the parties but on the landlord and Tennant Acts. I understand that as part of the lease terms there is a provision for long term football at Wheatsheaf Park. The real problems at Staines go with the demise of the financial position of the Boon family. We went from the vociferous singing of Alan Boon's yellow and blue army, to the more sedate tenure of Matthew. With the financial plight of his companies he put the club up for sale. We have to assume that Joe (as part of then a 4 man investing team) had a full and proper investigation into the club, including leases, playing conditions, players, manager and finances. They invested in the club and promised the supporters, at a face to face forum, crowds of a minimum of 1% of the 100,000 populatio0n of Staines. Full football league status within a 10 year period was also promised. The manager of the side the previous season left (arguably because the playing budget had been slashed) and no players were retained fro the side was close to the play offs from the Isthmian League Premier. We had a disastrous season and were relegated with 4 points, conceding 108 goals, scoring 41. This year we started the season with a new manager, Anthony Gale and a new side. The friendlies were encouraging but a press article was not. How to manage with no playing budget. Seemingly the manager had to clear with the Directors which players he could sign. Anthony Gale rightly left the club for personal reasons. Our best player, Mahrez, was asked to take over as interim coach. His first job was to secure as many of the squad as he could. Some players loyal to Tony Gale left. Mahrez steadied the ship and his record over his last 6 games was won 4, drawn 1 and lost 1. We were competitive and some fans were talking about possible outside chances of the pay offs. The manager was sacked, for no given reason, and a new manager in place. Many players left, and we were "treated" to a number of new faces to support. Some are good, some not so good, and at least one is dreadful. Yesterday showed we are starting to gel and become competitive in this division (that's the optimist in me). However we are in the 4 team race to avoid relegation. That's the history. The problem is the lack of communication between the board and the fans. The board supply the financial support and the fans the every day jobs (canteen, shop, programmes, gate etc)> However the fans also contribute financially with the boost the budget scheme. This gives a significant sum monthly to the manager. Do the club reciprocally reduce their contribution, legally allowable, morally dubious? We have no means of knowing and no communication from the Board. When things get strained between the board and the fans things fester. Look at the plight of West Ham and Man Utd to see. Failure is the only outcome. There must be communication from the board for things to improve. Crowds are down, on average, by around 100 from the Drax days. We are one divisio0n lower and struggling. The answer is not in an analysis of accounts, produced in accordance with the Companies Act as a communication between a company and its shareholders. In this case (Thames Club) the shareholders are the directors). The filed accounts are known to the Directors a long time before filing. The run the business on budgets and cash flows, not the the various ratios we accountants use to analyse performance. The real problem is COMMUNICATION. This could be resolved face to face, an article in the programme, or a hand out at the gate to explain what is going on. The real problem is that the fans are being given the mushroom treatment and are beginning to vote with their feet. How sad
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Re: THE REAL PROBLEM AT STAINES
Views: 2880
Outstanding post Arthur. Captures pretty much everything in a sensible, level headed way.
The state of the football club and silence from the chairman is the issue, not the relative accounts of the thames club.
Edited by Pins at 19:35:58 on 27th January 2020
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Re: THE REAL PROBLEM AT STAINES
Views: 2832
Out of interest who do you blame for the current state of affairs ? As we know a long chain of events has lead us into this period, these things don't just happen overnight and i'm fed up of people instantly just blaming the current ownership because it's easy. Maybe people should actually come down and see for themselves how hard the volunteers and staff at the club work, it's easy sitting behind a PC and blaming A B C ... Maybe people should actually put their money where their mouth is and pay to come into games rather than watching it from the bar windows for free.
Due Diligence has been mentioned a fair bit in this thread, this was surely completed as is protocol with any purchase. I bet the due diligence included the bar profits under the original rental agreement.
The biggest factor for me was the TC pulling the rental agreement with the bar.
The Bar intake was surely a huge part of the income made by the club and the Thames Club cancelled this overnight.
Don't you think Matthew Boon should have put an agreement in place with the Thames Club and actually secured the clubs future before he left ? Yes the family and his hard work has been second to none over their tenure but it seems he upped sticks and left immediately. If he cared that much he would have used his good relationship with the Thames Club and put some longer term agreements in place.
The Thames club want to push the football club out, They have dried a major source of income and continue to make things difficult.
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1 person
Re: THE REAL PROBLEM AT STAINES
Views: 2775
The parking on Tuesday was an absolute horror show, Makes you laugh when the Thames Club stewards just simply blame the football club and shrug their shoulders ! It's interesting though I don't ever remember it being this bad when we had crowds of 500 each week.
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Re: THE REAL PROBLEM AT STAINES
Views: 2725
I revisit my previous post :
THE THAMES CLUB ARE TRYING TO PUSH THE FOOTBALL CLUB OUT
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Re: THE REAL PROBLEM AT STAINES
Views: 2842
128 years of history totally disregarded and thrown on the scrap heap and left to rot, all for the sake of a few quid going into someone’s greedy pocket. The Thames club and any of its previous owners have never in any way shape or form wanted to work alongside the club, it’s only ever been about lining someone’s pockets at Staines Town Football Club’s expense. I would LOVE to see that health club go under so badly...
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Re: THE REAL PROBLEM AT STAINES
Views: 2858
The football club is great the chairman is a legend so the trouble is the thames club
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1 person
Re: THE REAL PROBLEM AT STAINES
Views: 2734
This whole thread proves that the vast majority of the fans love the club and will do their utmost for the Swans. She of us even came to see us play Wealdstone and discover that Mahrez isn't the disaster some thought. Although we all love the club we may have different opinions of players, coaches, directors, and maybe even other fans. We are all entitled to our views. However we all love the club. We will support the club in the direction it is being led. The disagreements with the Thames club can only be sorted out by the legal jurisdiction and our views of the Thames Club cannot alter any legal outcome. This taken, whenever the decision comes, does not strengthen or weaken our support of Staines Town FC. That must be remembered and the future of the club depends on our competitiveness in the league we are in, the attraction of our football to the fans, and our welcome, as fans to all fans, home, away and neutral. Our attendances are dwindling. This is worrying. However, I believe, a more settled squad, some good results and stability in our interactions can only help move the club forward ...... and I never did find out if Devante did beat Tommy Brewer
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Re: THE REAL PROBLEM AT STAINES
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The football club will get stronger & better in time so we need more fans at the club on home weekend & tuesday& wednesday nights
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Re: THE REAL PROBLEM AT STAINES
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Give the owner/ chairman more time & respect to rebuild the club & time that boon destroyed it
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Re: THE REAL PROBLEM AT STAINES
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Doesn't the "respect" work both ways Ali? If the owner/chairman wants the support of the loyal fans surely he has to give them some information on a regular basis? You seem to be very supportive of the chairmans efforts but I get the impression all but a very few of the most loyal have lost interest now. A lot was promised at the start but results certainly haven't supported that and a comical recruitment policy seems to alienate the majority. It's not rocket science it good PR?
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Re: THE REAL PROBLEM AT STAINES
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I do agree it is good PR, but I am not going to criticise a chairman who has saved this club from going bankrupt. Under the previous owners, of which if they were still the owners this football club wouldn’t exist, I don’t remember there being that many announcements either, everyone is so quick to be critical of Joe, but this dates back far beyond him.
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Re: THE REAL PROBLEM AT STAINES
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Hes been away on business give the man a break hes doing the very best for the club& team he will let you all know any update with any news indie course now get off his back & give the guy huge respect ok you dont realise how hard it is to be a owner/ chairman of stainestownfc
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Re: THE REAL PROBLEM AT STAINES
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Have you ever thought that if he did communicate to the supporters so they could understand what was going on, he may get respect and some understanding. Thames Club or whatever else is going on in the background is irrelevant. He may be doing a brilliant job - no-one knows it if no-one knows what's going on. I've not seen a post that is having a go at him, personally, only the frustration because people care about the club. You can't tell me that he is that busy he can't write an email once a week......
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Re: THE REAL PROBLEM AT STAINES
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There is really NOTHING alibrown400 can do to deflect from the answers being given to this thread. Matthew told everyone that he had taken the team as far as he could. To progress to the next level needed a lot more of investment. Look at Maidenhead, rivals for a time in National South, always aiming for mid-table survival. They dispensed with the services of Dear and invested in Alan Devonshire. He had more funds made available and got his team promoted to the National league. Average crowds went from circa 250 to around 800. More income was being generated and they are maintaining their status in the National League as one of the few (two I think) teams in that league who haven't got a squad of full time professional players. The initial investment was needed. Matthew was reported to be frightened that Drax, who we appointed, had got us to the verge of the play-offs. I am assuming that there was more than one consortium bidding to buy the club, or a successful businessman would have made sure that the purchase of our club would have been for peanuts, leaving plenty of headroom for investment. Joe's consortium decided that their planned budget was insufficient to keep Drax or any members of that squad. They chose the manager and promised us cross of 1% of the 100,000 population of Staines. They promised us success on the field. They appointed the manager and approved the squad he signed. Any member of that squad with any ability seemed to leave immediately with the exception of Thomas Gogo. We got through more managers than a squad. We ended up playing the youth team and a few add ons. Joe even turned out for a c oppose of away fixtures. We were deservedly relegated. This season there was no budget. There were managerial problems off the field at the start of the season, but the team was competitive. The new manager (interim) steadied the ship and seemed to be getting the team back on track Joe decided to dispense with his services. Our loss was Welling's gain. The new manager had to completely rebuild the side. I am not sure if he knows his playing budget and if the supporters contributions add to the sum he is allocated. The investment in the playing staff is financial and is down to Joe. The extra is not for Joe to assume will be given to the manager. Crowds will only come to see competitive football unless they are diehard Swan supporters (and even some of those seem to be drifting away. When previous managers have been sacked, the board have explained why, usually poor results, which the fans could see. with the current Chairman it is extremely difficult to see any rationale for some of his decisions. This is even more difficult in view of his original promises to the club and the fans. Those fans come week in week out, often watching players who are not good enough to play at the level of the league. The team is struggling to remain in this division. We are close to witness successive relegations. The silence from the Chairman is unbelievable. He accepts the willingness of the fans to get the ground ready for the season, to steward the ground for home games, to follow the club and to attend matches. They are freely giving their services and are willing to pay for their tickets. A n normal businessman would be prepared to explain the current plight and what those members of the business can expect in the short term; medium term and long term of that business. He would explain why he is the4 man to take the business forward. Are we not worthy members to receive such communication. The real problem at Staines Town FC is the lack of communication. The way forward is for the Board and the fans to work together both on the field and off the field.
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Re: THE REAL PROBLEM AT STAINES
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A great post Arthur and a very interesting comparison with Maidenhead United. I was actually borne in Miadenhead and lived there for the first 12 years of my life before moving to Staines. I was taken to Maidenhead as a youngster by my Dad and have many happy memories of York Road. On moving to Staines I adopted the Swans, whereas my brother's allegiance has always remained with the Magpies. The support base has always been very similar and if you were to ask my brother 10 years ago which team would be the more likely to progress to the National League then he would have said the Swans. I have heard people say that it is almost impossible to build a big support base at Wheatsheaf Park yet Maidenhead have increased their attendances from an average of around 250 to over 1,000; so it can be done.
Returning to our current plight I cannot disagree with anything you say. I have tried to support what Joe is doing because we have no alternative and I appreciate the position he is in; but like you I am getting increasingly frustrated by the lack of communication. I know Joe is a busy man but it would only take a few minutes to put together some sort of update for the fans, even on a monthly basis. There is nothing worse than not knowing what is going on.
We now head into a game with Northwood which is our biggest game of the season, and could be one of the most important in our history. They have now lost 10 games on the spin so if we lose that game I find it very hard to see us finishing anything better than bottom of the League. I have heard it said by at least one member of the Club that if we finish bottom the Club will no longer exist, implying that Joe will pull the plug if we go down another level. Dont know if that is true but it is a frightening prospect.
I try to remain positive but is is becoming increasingly difficult. I doubt that Joe ever reads the forum but if he does I can only ask him to communicate with us because most of us are on his side and we are desperately trying to keep things going, hoping that there will be a brighter future.
COME ON YOU SWANS!
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