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by Andrew6726/2/2014 10:25Wed Feb 26 10:25:34 2014
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A new low
Views: 1447
I did not think that this once proud club could sink any lower, but getting hammered 12-0 at home really is the lowest of the low. Message to the owner/chairman whoever you are, turn the lights out and padlock the gates, and put us all out of our misery. Disgraceful ?.
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Re: A new low
Views: 1366
Iwillo answer this in two or three posts. You seem to think this is all about money and financial success - and hide behind a name that really disappears when you strike your red end against anything sharp. Please just accept the gates will never be padlocked; there will always be football at Wheatsheaf Park. Some of us may be getting older - Norm, Scouser and myself. However there are younger fans coming along - John Blair (you owe me a fiver for that), Steve Parsons (ditto) then Wakes - and his family, my grandsons. They all have the Swans at their heart and will always bleed yellow and blue. Football will continue at Wheatsheaf Park. Look at heart overcoming the head and financial gain - Henry Second had his friend Thomas a Becket assassinated for not acting as he wished. Archbishops of Canterbury have always followed on. Henry Eighth got rid od Wolsey, Cranmer, Moore etc but his money did not prevail. In more recent times, Hitler swept all before him through Europe. The hearts of the Brits remained to ensure the survival of our Island. The head does not always prevail - and being a football supporter is all about heart and emotion. The football club will stay on.
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Re: A new low
Views: 1304
"Please just accept the gates will never be padlocked; there will always be football at Wheatsheaf Park."
I sincerely hope you're right, Arthur. However, that surely depends on the relationship between the club / its owner and the owners of Wheatsheaf Park?
As I think has been discussed before, Staines Town Football Club Limited is technically insolvent, given that it has negative "shareholders funds" of more than £180,000. There is a note in the accounts that the Director commits to providing the requisite financial support but the company via which the club is owned - Fulcrum Sports Investments - has filed accounts suggesting it is "dormant" and has a share capital of just £100. This begs the question: how will that support be forthcoming?
Let's assume that, without a playing budget, the club's matchday income is enough to cover the key bills - match officials, rent, utilities, etc - which at least ensures its short term viability. This should be enough, for now, to keep the gates open. But what happens when the club's current lease expires? Will the Thames Club / Dowling LLP grant it a new one and, if not, what then?
What happens if the club is asked to make good on the accumulated losses (c£180k) and is unable to do so? If it goes bust (God forbid) then you are right that there are good people who bleed royal blue and old gold and would surely form a 'phoenix' club. But would that club be able to use Wheatsheaf Park and, if not, where would it play? Ashford have a tenant, Spelthorne Sports have about four teams using their ground and Lammas only have the grading for Step 7. After that, the club's looking at going outside the borough and even the County; it has survived such arrangements before but, without financial support, could it do so again?
If you cut me, I'd bleed tangerine and white but even as an exiled Ashfordian, I can only feel sadness about last night's result. STFC obviously has deep-rooted problems but I hope they can be resolved. It will take a long time to do that, though.
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Re: A new low
Views: 1224
Gareth there are a lot of rebuttable assumptions there. The owner has guaranteed the existence of the club. he has also promised money currently spent on legal bills with those who purport to be our leaseholders will be available for the team. This will improve the team quality and save us from debacles like last night. However, I will be at the Ashford away match. COYS
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Re: A new low
Views: 1250
There were no controversial assumptions on my part, Arthur. Just one about income, which was pretty conservative.
There were plenty of questions for sure, because I see scorelines like last night's and I struggle to wrap my head around them. Because I live near Liverpool these days I don't have as nuanced an understanding of the football scene in my old neck of the woods as I once did.
I saw that result and it made me sad. It also made me wonder how such a situation could be remedied, given that the owner of the club has delegated responsibility for running it to others. There are both short-term and long-term challenges that face Staines Town but surely the key to it all is Wheatsheaf Park. If the freeholders do not wish to sell (and it is evident they don't) then the club's priority should be ensuring they have the facilities they need to be viable for years to come. To do that, a deal needs to be done with the Thames Club or its owners, one way or another.
Edited by beano at 15:04:10 on 12th January 2022
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1 person
Re: A new low
Views: 1331
Hi Arthur -thats very interesting-when did Joe tell you that this is his plan and did he give any indication in which season he anticipates that the funds will become available to finance the team. Perhaps helpful if our manager/ers were also kept in the loop.
Do you know what his thoughts are in response to last nights result and are we likely to see him back at the ground this season.
Please keep us updated Arthur -
Edited by Norm at 14:51:51 on 12th January 2022
Edited by Norm at 14:52:54 on 12th January 2022
Edited by Norm at 14:55:29 on 12th January 2022
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Re: A new low
Views: 1209
A couple of things confuse me at the moment. Arthur seems to be the only supporter who knows what's going on and not sure why that is? Can you please let us know - do you speak to the owner regularly? Secondly the answer to this is blindingly obvious. To what level of league does the team need to drop down to until the penny drops that there needs to be funds for players? He's offered multi millions to the Thames Club, put a package together to buy Levski Sofia so he has the money. Words and promises are fine - he promised a lot when he took over the club and also to the supporters of Levski and nothing has materialised..........what's he waiting for, Arthur?
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Re: A new low
Views: 1271
This does get rather wearing. Up util David Norris pleaded with me to watch Joe's videos on the Thames Club and D0ownings, I was one of his biggest critics. Those videos led me to some 18 months work to produce a paper sent to FRC, FRRP, ICAEW, ACCA, Business Minister and his shadow. It was copied to Joe (C/O Wheatsheaf Park, the football club, the supporters club, The Thames Club and Downings, Essentially 96% of the Thames Club share capital is owned by one company - a dormant non-trading company. This means that without the exercise of those votes the Thames Club cannot pass any resolution. The voting control is said to be Down wings, although they say they limit their votes to 50%. This would still make the 'thames Club an associate undertaking of Downings. Downings say they have no subsidiaries nor associates. The paper covered a number of other issues and has yet to be decided on one or the other . Joe phoned me (he got my number from the club) to thank me for my efforts. I pointed out the investment needed for the team and he promised that when the legal issues are fully resolved, that money will be channelled into the club. The information I got was all in the public domain and anyone could, if prepared to put in the effort, got the same thanks.
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Re: A new low
Views: 1111
Thankyou for the summary Arthur-but I do think all this with the Thames club is a smokescreen to cover why Joe-a property developer- purchased the club in the first place
Pardon me for not understanding- but if you decide to buy a football club surely having a competative team on the pitch is normally the priority . Getting involved in the internal financial structure of your landlords and its associated backers is not the normal activity of a non league football club.Better to have the club surviving by playing at a different venue than being pushed out of business by debts incurred in fighting your landlord.Walton & Hersham have increased attendance fronm around 60 per game to over 400+since ground sharing at the Walton hub.
From my viewpoint (without the full details you have from Joe) investigations were carried out by Joe as he wished to purchase the freehold in his personal capacity and therefore any connected legal costs should be his sole responsibility and not channelled through the football club. If the huge deficit highlighted by Gareth in the football club accounts relates to legal costs I think supporters have aright to be provided with a full explanation especially in view of the supporters contributionsto the playing budget. .
Edited by Norm at 10:32:51 on 13th January 2022
Edited by Norm at 10:35:28 on 13th January 2022
Edited by Norm at 10:38:52 on 13th January 2022
Edited by Norm at 10:39:56 on 13th January 2022
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Re: A new low
Views: 1044
Norm, Bless you. Think about the numbers coming through the gates. Think about any other income we get - advertising, sponsorship etc. Then think about match fees to officials; payments (albeit low) to players and managers; travelling; subscriptions to the league and cup registrations. Then do the maths and decide how the club remains afloat. Then look at what happens in reality to what was apparently in our lease ..... resting of the boardroom, bar facilities to name but two. Then consider if you had invested and were assured that these would be ongoing. Then look at the landlord ..... the Thames Club - whose accounts show no overall control. The reality is 96% of their shares are in the hands of one company ..... so who is our land lord.
Perghaps you would like to volunteer to make up the shortfall in a given month.
Let's live in the real world and leave fantasy football to those who enjoy it
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Re: A new low
Views: 1142
Knocking Joe serves no real purpose. I am sure he looks at the message board from time to time. I believe he did a Q&A session when he bought the club and did a further session more recently. That's 2 more than the club has ever had. He has guaranteed the future trading of the club. As has been pointed out more than once the club is technically bankrupt. Nobody tells me how to spend my money, be it on the Boost the Budget scheme or paying into Ashford Town's fundraiser after their vandalism problems. We have no right to tell J0oe how to spend his money. I believe he spends most of his time in there USA. I believe he was misled in the due diligence when he purchased the club. I believe that a great deal of money from the club's history never found its way into the club funds. This needs an explanation. I understand some of the previous owners family members get upset by adverse comments about the missing money - but the questions need to be put to rest. I had a meeting with the Directors of the Thames Club and a director of Downings towards the end of last year - at their request. In the meeting Stephen Lewis said Downings control the Thames Club. He wa quickly "corrected" by the Downings director. It was at the meeting I was informed that some of the comments about the previous owners up set the family. They are not meant to - they are always aimed at discovering the truth - and the truth sets you free.
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Re: A new low
Views: 1085
Each and every onee of us needs to understand that love can only grow by the efforts we put into the relationship. I love the club and will work for it as much as I can. I respect the directors and admire the work they do for the club. I also respectt the owner and appreciate the money he has put into the club I love ....... And if we spent more time working for the club rather than sniping from the comfort of our armchairs, just maybe the club will start again to progress. to progress a club needs a board, supporters and a team working together ........ then maybe the players will see that we all (board, supporters and football interested parties) only want to see success on the field and that being reflected in the club's books.
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Re: A new low
Views: 1239
And I'm so pissed off I won't post a joke. I will post a quote from one of my favourite poets, recently diagnosed with dementia. He said there are three good things about dementia; firstly you meet new people every day; secondly you can hide your own Easter eggs; Oh and thirdly, you meet new people every day ................
Thank yo John Cooper Clarke
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Re: A new low
Views: 1060
I can't imagine you look on social media Arthur but we are the national laughing stock of non league football at the moment. I wonder if you could ask your contacts at the club why the Staines twitter feed has wiped all trace of the game ?
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Re: A new low
Views: 1060
Social media is what it is - a series of opinions. I don't look at it as I have no mobile phone. The reality is that our club has been struggling for a number of seasons - from before the change of ownership. It has been starved of cash from before the change of ownership. The current owner has unearthed, and is still unearthing many discrepancies between the club, books and legal ties he was shown and the reality of the current situation. Coming on here now berating the only man who keeps there club in existence without taking any positive action ourselves seems to be the fantasy world that someone relying on social media would like to live.
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Re: A new low
Views: 1033
Arthur ,you must catch up, Elizabeth is on the throne now not Victoria.
Get a phone -social media is a great tool when used in the right way
leads on from me previous post.
The 5 20 year old owners of Walton & Hersham were interviewed on Sky news at end of December and asked how they had turned the club around.
"we used social media to reach out to local supporters"
also
"we played good attractive football which brought even more fans back "
"we started winning games which brought more supporters back"
None of this is rocket science but asimple plan instigated by a group of boys with no business experience ,having left school 3 years earlier
I use them as an example because they are local and mirror the history of our club and demonstrate what can be achieved through good leadership and shows that putting out a competative team is the first building block to turning the club around.
Edited by Norm at 12:31:12 on 13th January 2022
Edited by Norm at 12:34:42 on 13th January 2022
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Re: A new low
Views: 1020
Great idea for those who feel the need to have a phone with them all the. time. I went shopping this afternoon. I concentrated on the list, the cup of coffee and chat to my wife - no need for any interruption. If you feel this can work, talk to Kevin, use your time to set up the website, and we can all appreciate thecsuccess it brings. Spoke to my son in Bournemouth this afternoon whilst he was on the way back from his work. We spoke for an hour - the landline coped adequately
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Re: A new low
Views: 935
Hopefully to close this thread ...............
To whoever stole my antidepressants I hope you are happy now
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Re: A new low
Views: 1063
wat i really want to know is why that man never says anythink to the fans
the blokes a ghost
you say he cares then why not show it
everythin is about business and money that isnt the real world this is a footy club with real people like steve parson who thaat club is his life
86 people at a home game even the egham fans are taking the mick
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Re: A new low
Views: 1044
Pretty poor effort. The thread stated at the start he has had more communication with the fans than the previous owners ever did. Please explain why Downings do not consolidate the companies they control
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Re: A new low
Views: 968
Why this fixation with Downings still.........communication is more important now than ever with the state that the club finds itself in. Doesn't matter what he's done previously.
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Re: A new low
Views: 935
I am not sure where you live. I am not sure what you would expect if you invested a tenner in 2015. Downings are an investment company. In 2015 the Thames Club (you are aware of their relationship with the club) were on the verge of going bust. Downings got a number of investors to invest in the Thames Club. The Thames Club have lost money every year since. They have never paid a dividend are the likelihood of them ever paying a dividend is as likely as Staines Town qualifying foe Europe. So ask yourself why Downings would ask anyone to invest in the Thames Club. Secondly, this thread was started when we had one of our worst ever results. The comment was that we should lock the gates and pack up playing football at Wheatsheaf Park. Presumably the penny has now clicked as to what Downings, who control the Thames Club (arguably) want to happen to the football club. I could go on about the likelihood of development taking place on the site - but this isn't the forum for that. All I want - and presumably you want, is for competitive football to be played at Wheatsheaf Park. All Downings want is vacant possession.
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Re: A new low
Views: 972
I live in Hampton - not sure what that has to do with anything? What does it matter to the club if they pay a dividend or not? And you're right about one thing - competitive football. That only comes with investment, not in legal battles but the club
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Re: A new low
Views: 933
I totally get the link between Staines Town Football Club and Wheatsheaf Park.
However-
The important point for me Arthur is that Staines Town Football Club continue and play competative football.-full stop
If there is so much time and money being invested in his battles with Thames Club /Downings ( as it sounds like from your chats with Joe Dixon) surely its in every ones best interests to call a halt and consider alternative playing arrangements .A great shame I know but the survival of STFC is surely more important to the majority of football supporters than how /why/ when of Thames club /Downings finances.
If we stay in this league this season and have a sensible playing budget for the next -then fine lets contiue these battles with Thames club etc But if we are not so lucky, I think we must be proactive and put in place a plan to ensure continuance of the club up to and beyond when our lease expires in afew years time. Lets be in charge of our own destiny.
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Re: A new low
Views: 919
Genuinely as a supporter, I cannot remember the last time Joe Dixon addressed us with any update or information full stop. The last time I can see any mention on the official website is November 2020 and the video embedded has been deleted. Kevin Rowell became the chairman in February last year but Joe Dixon is still the owner.
If Downing and the Thames club are the reason why finance wasn't invested on the pitch and rather in legal fees then fine so be it, but at what point would that ever change in the future? That excuse surely stops at a certain point unless he continues to plough money into a "legal Battle" in which case I think he could let us know so people get off his back. He was very quick to release those damning videos after all, but a simple email to the core supporters seems impossible ???
It sounds to me like he is unwilling to let go of his failed investment (Taking a massive gamble that he could get hold of the land) He shows absolutely no interest in the team and this season it doesn't look like he has invested a penny. It seems quite common knowledge the players are being paid zilch and the entire club is being propped up by supporters.
He shows absolutely no interest in the supporters and good people of STFC. That's the biggest issue for me. Real people spending their own time AND MONEY keeping this club going.
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Re: A new low
Views: 1257
We really need a wake up call here. We need some Janet and John economics and to consider the reality of the situation. Firstly Joe Dixon is not the only director of STAINES TOWN FC. You are at liberty to ask questions of any of the Board if you so wish. Joe Dixon is the majority shareholder.
As an investor in STAINES TOWN FC he is entitled to spend his money on protecting his investment as he sees fit. Playing football at an alternative venue is possible. Is it suggested we build a new stadium; if so who pays? Or do you suggest a ground share? If so, where, and how many new supporters do you think we will attract for our "home game" and how many fans would stop coming.
With regards to the Thames Club. the 2015 accounts, after a cash injection from investors of £1,500,000, the net assets were £1,491,318. This is the rough guide to the worth of the company.You case argue about goodwill, and resale value versus net book value, but in rule of thumb terms the net assets were about the cash sums Downings had convinced investors to put into the Thame Club. At the end of December 2020, those net assets were £117,443. In simple terms, if you invested a tenner in 2015, it would be worth £1 at the end of 2020. There can only be one thing an investor would be interested in. We can then go into the arguments about the increasing effects of global warming, including the likelihood of the area flooding. Should the council permit development on the flood plain. Can the infrastructu7re drainage cope for starters.
There are a number of other outstanding legal issues being raised by our landlords, to (presumably) try to mitigate their potential losses. We can see from the recent cladding issues following Grenfell Tower, developers soon disappear once they have cashed in. The legal cases involved which Joe is pursuing firstly is to protect his investment (which sees football at Wheatsheaf Park for as long as you care to think. Secondly it protects all of us a Staines Council tax payers from being saddled with further debts should development take place and the developer disappear. .Rathe than take it out on Joe, you should all be 110% behindd him.
Joe has held more question and answer sessions than any previous Stainers Town owner. When was the last time the Glazers held Q&A, or the owners of any football league club you wish to namer. Think before you speak and support the club, as I do, Joe Dixon does, and I hope each one of you does.
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Re: A new low
Views: 998
Arthur, you said "Firstly Joe Dixon is not the only director of STAINES TOWN FC."
Companies House says he is; the current officers are him, plus the Company Secretary, Steve Parsons.
The club website lists an "Executive Committee"; while these are the people carrying out the day-to-day running of the club, they don't quite have the same powers, legal rights or responsibilities as Directors. They operate in line with the responsibility delegated to them by the sole Director.
You are absolutely right that, as the owner of Staines Town FC, Mr Dixon has a duty to protect his investment. Whether allowing the football club to operate without a budget for players is the right way to do that is a matter of opinion but basic logic suggests that should Staines drop to Step 5, the club's value as an asset would decrease.
It's clear to anyone who has looked at their accounts that the Thames Club is a business which has struggled for many years and so it is quite natural to ask why Downing LLP continues to support it. Even if they do have a long-term plan for the site which involves an alternative use of it, it's highly unlikely they'd admit to that until they absolutely had to and there's no guarantee any further development would be granted planning permission.
As a football fan who grew up locally during an era where Staines Town were regularly a division or two above their local rivals, I've chipped into this conversation in an effort to understand what the issues are and how they might be resolved. I tend to agree with you that blaming all the club's ills on the owner of the club is a little unfair but, given that said owner seems to have absolved himself of responsibility for it's day to day operations, I can see why long-term Staines fans might take that approach.
Both Norman and myself have attempted to ask what the long term future of Staines Town FC might be; my suggestion is that pouring money into continued legal action might not be the best way to secure it. Given the kind of business Downing LLP does, I'm guessing that they might be able to cover legal costs longer than Joe Dixon could on his own, so surely a more sensible approach would be to seek a 'reset' in relations between STFC and the Thames Club / Downing.
It is admittedly very unlikely, but a rapproachment might lead, in the longer term, to STFC having some of the facilities placed under its control, enabling it to generate greater revenue.
If the maintenance and facility issues can be made good and the club can concentrate on football rather than legal action, this would presumably enable a playing budget to be made available, which leads to better results and therefore, more people through the turnstiles. The Thames Club could benefit from that through bar income, plus ground rent as a minimum. At the very least, having a stable tenant paying rent every month provides some sort of return in a way that an empty site without planning permission does not. Therefore, in the short term, it should be in everyone's interests for the club and its landlord to co-exist, at least for the duration of the current lease.
The ultimate question is what happens if (a) the two sides cannot resolve their differences or (b) an agreement is reached but leads to the club being given notice to quit at the end of its current lease.
You can say what you like about the previous stewardship of STFC but, when the Swans were groundsharing at various places before the current Wheatsheaf Park opened, the late Alan Boon was at games, week in, week out and that isn't something that can be said about Mr Dixon. That's his business of course, but I can see why it leads to questions from Staines supporters.
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Re: A new low
Views: 978
Arthur I really admire your passion and your love for the Swans is clear to see, passionate supporters are what this club and many others in non league survive on. So we should absolutely stick together because ultimately we all want the same thing, but there are many many questions that need answering... to name a few :
Who is the clubs manager, officially Chico but on an interim basis ? For how long ? Is it worth even getting to know him ? or will he be sacked ? What was his previous managerial experience ? Is he right for the job ? Why hasn't he been given the job full time officially ?
Will the club be provided some form of budget to try and survive this season ?
When will the owner acknowledge and thank the supporters for their continued financial support ?
Why do we continue to lose our best players ?
Why do we continue to employ the wrong managers and then sack them too quickly ?
Sorry if this seems like a Thursday night run of question time on the BBC !
Fundamentally the football club we love so much has just lost 12-0 in the most embarrassing defeat in the clubs history.
If our owner truly cared about the people of this football club he would have the guts to speak to the fans.
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Re: A new low
Views: 1006
Well said Swandico, buy the way Alan boon used to be at every swans game home or away, when was the last time joe Dixon was at a game, we have more chance of seeing Lord Lucan at a game than him.
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Re: A new low
Views: 1019
I'm not sure how much more of your verbal diarrhoea I can put up with from you. You clearly cannot keep up with the thread you started and are making me repeat myself more times than a can of very fizzy cola. Firstly if ever you came to a match you would meet the club Chairman at the gate. I have named him and owe him an apology for using his name without asking him. His name is also in the programme. There is also a supporters club. You could ask questions about the club of them. I also pointed out to you that I contacted the club, the supporters club and Joe Dixon by writing to the club at the Wheatsheaf Park address. I also told you it upset family members to mention n the Boon family on this website. Alan sadly has passed away and he did attend all games homeland away. Matthew, who still has a significant interest in the club, attended less often and now never. Like you, he has a number of questions about the club finances to answer. The Glazers live in the USA and rarely attend United matches. Joe Dixon lives in the States. What is your problem. In fact, I think the next time you meet him may be in a court of law so be careful what you wish for.
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Re: A new low
Views: 1223
The next part will look at the football side of things. Last night was abysmal. We started with a back 5. However our full backs are full backs and cannot operate as wing backs. We switched to a four with Reece moving into midfield. There was no leadership nor organisation in the back 4 and the captain (arguably the voice of the manager on the pitch) never uttered a word all evening. There was no urgency in the mid field. No busting a gut together back goal side when we were out of possession. Up front we had some pace - and an amount of skill. However they were never in place at the same time. Some home truths need to be said and things sorted on the training field. It was a poor day for the players - and they know that individually and collectively. It was a bad day for the interim manager, and he knows the size of his task. It was a poor day for the fans - a poor turnout on a bad night (weatherise). However, I am certain that they, like me, will be back for the next home game - and I might even be at the next away game!!!
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Re: A new low
Views: 1193
Finally for one of my favourite Swans, a little tale where you have to decide about whether nofollow the heart or the head.
A C of E vicar, a Baptist minister, and a rabbi all used to meet regularly every week in their local coffee shop. One day the coffee shop owner asked if, rather than spend their tie drinking coffee they ought to go out to try and get some new conversions. They all decided they would go into the forest to convert the pesky bears. One week later the baptist minister arrived at the coffee shop in a wheelchair where he saw the vicar with a black eye and his arm in a sling. The vicar explained he had met a bear and been roughed up, but after an hour or so the bear had been converted and the vicar took Communion with him. The Baptist minister said he went in and started preaching fire and brimstone. He too was beaten jump, legs damaged, but after 4 hours he was able to take some bears to the river and baptise them. Just then an ambulance arrived and they brought in the rabbi, covered head to toe in a plaster cast. When asked, the Rabbi said that using hindsight, it was a mistake to start talking about circumcision.
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Re: A new low
Views: 1339
I agree, that was as low as it gets. However a couple of things, the owner (absent joe) needs to be honest and tell us the fans what he is upto. If its a football club he wants then put money into the club so as we can buy players good enough to see us progress, or sell the club. What i would like to add is i heard a so called fan criticising the players. What people fail to understand is that if you are not paying players then any decent player we get is soon away to a club that offers him money, and good luck to them, we all have to pay bills. That leaves us with players who play for the fun of it, so i think we should thank them for trying to keep the club going. Please whoever you blame, dont blame the players.
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