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STOP PRESS … STAINES AND LAMMAS (MIDDLESEX) FOOTBALL CLUB !!!
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The all new and united football club for the town of Staines has just arrived and we have teamed up with local rivals Staines Lammas to form a Staines ‘super club’! As one door closes, another one opens! A new beginning where love will replace corruption. We are now finally free !!! Head over to https://twitter.com/slammasmiddxfc?s=21&t=cvadqWKjJk6urNi8u3d_SQ for an early insight
Edited by Wakes at 22:44:38 on 3rd July 2022
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Some important information…
Views: 2494
Just to clear a few things up for everybody at the start of our exciting new adventure… Staines Town FC now only exists in name only and with no one left involved leaves a supporters base without a club to support. It therefore makes perfect sense for our fan base to move a mile down the road and team up with the existing Staines Lammas Football Club and thus changing the name to the Staines and Lammas Football Club.
Just to be absolutely clear, this is not actually a merger of the two clubs but a relocating of our supporters base which more importantly makes us officially free from corruption and the big bad wolf that is Joe Dixon.
We will take our existing place at step 7 and play Surrey Premier league football at the Laleham recreation ground until a suitable lease can be found for an eventual return to Wheatsheaf Park and therefore freeing up the Laleham ground for an Under 23, Academy and training facility.
The future is bright, the future is Dixon free!
Up the Staines and Lammas!!!
Edited by Wakes at 23:04:55 on 1st July 2022
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Re: Some important information…
Views: 2312
Thanks Wakes-great to read such positive news for all the supporters.
Looking forward to seeing Staines and Lammas take to the field. A real football club once again, built on firm foundations and with a proper structure already in place.
Thanks to all who made this possible .
Norm
Edited by Norm at 11:15:54 on 2nd July 2022
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Re: Some important information…
Views: 2253
This is a really difficult one for me, and a decision that has given me more than a few sleepless nights since the announcement at the recent Supporters Club meeting. I'm sure I am not the only one present at that meeting who was expecting to hear the announcement of the formation of a new Phoenix Club; instead of which we are being asked to throw our support behind an existing Club, Staines Lammas. After hearing the arguments behind this decision I can understand it from a logical perspective. It means that we will be at a higher level than had we formed the Phoenix Club; and we have a ready made team to hopefully take us to the next level. I'm sure also that the financial situation will be easier.However, no matter which way you dress it up, Staines Lammas means nothing to me; you may as well ask me to support Egham Town FC. A Phoenix club, owned by the supporters, would have been a totally different proposition. It would essentially have been STFC under a different name; because the heartbeat of it would have been the supporters and committee of STFC. The Pheonix Club would have been something that excited me, but I am struggling to feel the same about being part of Staines Lammas (or should I say Staines & Lammas). Thinking also of other Phoenix clubs, AFC Wimbledon immediately springs to mind - they not only climbed back to their position in the Football League but they were also able to claim back the the history of the old Wimbledon FC. Surely any chance of claiming back the history of STFC would be very difficult, if not impossible, for Staines Lammas, as they already have their own history back to 1926.
To sum up, I feel that this decision has been made with the 'head' rather than the 'heart'. Football, and my support for STFC came from the heart, and my heart is struggling with the idea of supporting Staines Lammas. Good luck to those who throw their lot in with Staines Lammas, and all the people who made this decision are people I respect greatly, but at the moment it just doesn't work for me. RIP STFC.
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Re: Some important information…
Views: 2107
i understand where you are coming from, but hey, I do think we need a reality check . I am sure if a supporter came forward with say £30,000 a season for the next few years then a phoenix club would have been every ones top choice .
However ,as we have experienced over the last 4 years, that sort of money is simply not available .
Wimbledon had a hardcore supporter base of around 2,500-STFC must have around 150 on a good day. Everyone donating £10 a week to finance the club -rather a difference in income
Fact is that supporters (who were very generous through the boost the budget scheme) were not able to contribute enough monies over the 2 completed seasons under Dixon to finance a team strong enough to avoid relegation. .Add on all the other overheads and you realise how much is needed to run even a Phoenix club
Even an established club such as Walton Casuals have had to call it a day because they could no longer raise the £80,000 a season needed to continue.
With all the uncertainity around the availability of the pitch at WP- and even if that was resolved -all the groundcare equipment mower etc down to the last fork and spades,(now removed by Dixon), would have to be replaced, more significant cost to the Phoenix club.
The impact of loosing a club with a history of 130 years is huge but because Dixon has totally stripped the club bare then the solution is the best possible to ensure that supporters have a club to support for next season.i think had there been a gap year or two, supporters could have moved on.-I was certainly wondering where I would be visiting in 22/23 for my NL fix
I understand that you cannot please all supporters all the time but I honestly think the steering team could not have done more with the resources available to them.
Edited by Norm at 00:47:34 on 3rd July 2022
Edited by Norm at 00:55:45 on 3rd July 2022
Edited by Norm at 01:02:26 on 3rd July 2022
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Re: Some important information…
Views: 1904
I am not sure of the logic here. Both STFC and Staines Lammas FC had come to a crossroads. STFC because of the inactions of the owner; and Staines Lammas FC because of financial constrictions preventing them going above Tier 7. Staines To0wn have not taken up their Level 6 position where the FA offered them following registration. I am certain with the 21/22 set up the club could not compete at tier 6. The officials of the two clubs (excluding the owner of STFC) got together and formed as new club. They could have, but didn't call it Staines 2022. They called it Staines and Lammas FC and will play at tier 7. Their current home ground is the only ground in Staines on which it is possible to play. They have ambitions to play at Wheatsheaf Park should that become availaqblr. This just means that there will be a Staines football club for the local community going forward. It will not be Staines Lammas FC and it will not be Staines Town FC. We can all watch our non-league football where we choose. I will be going to watch the new club. I trust I will see many of my fellow Swans there too
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Re: Some important information…
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With respect Norm there is no way that I am trying to compare STFC with AFC Wimbledon. My point about AFCW was that as a Phoenix Club they were eventially able to claim back the history of the old Wimbledon club. By joining Staines Lammas, an existing club, then we will never be able to reclaim the history of STFC. I would rather compare us with a club like Hendon, a club with a similar size support base who have become a fans' club and have managed to maintain the club at Isthmian League level; despite losing their ground. I think people forget also that historically STFC were not a big Club. They were in the Spartan League when I started to watch them, and its only in recent years that we rose briefly to Conference South level, where we were very much punching above our weight.
All that aside however, I think the most important point about the decision to join Staines Lammas is that it will divide our small support base even further. Had we formed a Phoenix Club then I am pretty sure that 99% of our remaining support base would have rallied round and been totally commited to it. A lot has been said about having one football club for Staines, and if the people at Staines Lammas had got together with us and formed a new 'Staines FC 2022', then that would be a totally different ball game; I could get behind that. Whichever way you paint it the club we are being asked to back is Staines Lammas FC' (founded 1926), and I'm afraid that's a step to far for me.
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Re: Some important information…
Views: 1879
I totally understand however,I was at the supporters meetings (perhaps you were as well) and do not recall anyone taking the floor and explaining that a Phoenix club was the only acceptable way forward . I recall a vote I think by a show of hands giving the steering team authority to find the best solution out of the Dixon mess.
They have done this and i am excited by the prospect of being able to contribute to the growth of the club. I just feel that it has been such complete nightmare under Dixon for the last 4 years that this is a realistic way forward to a more sustainable and enjoyable way of watching soccer again but still retainng links to the late STFC .
Obviously you feel very strongly about this issue -which I respect- and therefore there is nothing, as I see it, to stop you doing exactly that and establishing a Phoenix Club along the lines you have set out. This is not meant to be a silly comment but maybe you are right and the wrong decision has been made so get out there and show us how it should be done
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Re: Some important information…
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I totally understand however,I was at the supporters meetings (perhaps you were as well) and do not recall anyone taking the floor and explaining that a Phoenix club was the only acceptable way forward . I recall a vote I think by a show of hands giving the steering team authority to find the best solution out of the Dixon mess.
They have done this and i am excited by the prospect of being able to contribute to the growth of the club. I just feel that it has been such complete nightmare under Dixon for the last 4 years that this is a realistic way forward to a more sustainable and enjoyable way of watching soccer again but still retainng links to the late STFC .
Obviously you feel very strongly about this issue -which I respect- and therefore there is nothing, as I see it, to stop you doing exactly that and establishing a Phoenix Club along the lines you have set out. This is not meant to be a silly comment but maybe you are right and the wrong decision has been made so get out there and show us how it should be done
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Re: Some important information…
Views: 1988
Such wise and sensible words. The halcyon days of yesteryear we all remember with love and affection. Wearing rose tinted spectacles a phoenix club would find a place in that dreamland. The reality would be a club with no ground, no money, no players ...... Last year I would suggest Steve Parsons registered more players than the rest of the league put together. The true phoenix club is the way we are going. A community club, owned by the community ...... ladies football, walking football, youth football and a successful first team. This would grow by improvements to the existing ground. Further growth should then come with community support. There is no fairy godfather or mother to pump millions into a homeless club. Joe Dixon gas killed STFC. He retains the carcass through offshore ownership to spite the community and supporters he feels should have given him riches. He is not really a person fit to be involved in football nor to be a company director. He took our club into extinction and refuses to meet his legal obligations in the UK by taking his companies offshore.
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Re: Some important information…
Views: 2090
Sadly, I have to agree with Devon Swan. This smacks of the whole Wimbledon/MK Dons/AFC Wimbledon issue. As much as I respect everyone’s decision, I don’t feel I can go and support a Staines Lammas team. Like Devon Swan, I would be fully behind a Phoenix team. This decision will certainly be divisive, but I think as a very small supporter base, we really do need to try and remain cohesive. Although I am not prepared to support Staines Lammas, I remain fully onside with those who choose to do so. I watch with interest should a Phoenix side appear. However for now, RIP Staines Town FC. I’m still very much lost for words.
Edited by pp7822 at 21:51:19 on 2nd July 2022
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Re: Some important information…
Views: 1990
Without trying to be too judgemental, I feel the impression most people are getting is that this new venture is still very much the original Staines Lammas FC with the only change being the added “and” inbetween. The club crest is still technically the old Staines Lammas badge with the 1926 history alongside it and the clubs Twitter is still the same as before. Understandable that alarm bells are ringing with the Staines Town side of the support.
The meeting at the Thames club a few weeks back all sounded great but I think in order for this to work to it’s maximum potential, the origins of Staines Town Football club the Swans 1892 cannot be allowed to die and must continue to live on in some form.
Utmost respect for everyone involved from the two clubs in being so forward thinking and it is the logical thing to do in bringing the two clubs together but please not at the total expensive of Staines Town Football Club and all it’s glorious history….. thanks
Edited by Wakes at 22:46:07 on 2nd July 2022
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Re: Some important information…
Views: 1900
I think what my fellow Devon Swan is trying to say is;
Supporting a football club comes from the heart and not your head. People ask what made us travel to watch Staines get hammered over the last few years. Why would we spend 9 + hours trying to get to Lewes v Staines on a hot summers day and get no further than 80-100 miles before turning round in the holiday traffic when we realised we wouldn’t make it before 5pm let alone 3! If you answer with your head then people say we must be mad, ours wife’s certainly think we are! However, when you answer with your heart and say you can’t really explain it but you have a passion and love for the club then it will make more sense to some, others will probably still think you’re mad. It would certainly be easier and a lot cheaper if it was a simple as walking down the road and supporting one of the local clubs. But these clubs do not ‘mean’ anything to me, watching them does not have the same affect on my emotions, it’s just a game of football but it doesn’t mean anything if they win or lose. I could leave my house at 2.45, watch a game and be home by 5.15 but I don’t do that because I’d rather drive 170 miles each way to watch Staines Town FC lose 9-1. Why? Because it means something to me!
Logically speaking, from a head perspective the move to Staines and Lammas FC makes 100% total sense. Was at the meeting a few Wednesdays back and you can totally understand why the steering committee have chosen to take the path they have. I totally respect the time and effort they have put into the club, which without them would have certainly folded sooner than it has., so this is not a criticism of them. However, my heart says we will now never know if we could have made a Phoenix club work. Our own club, grounding sharing at Staines Lammas FC, before making our way back Wheatsheaf Lane and climbing a few divisions. Think of the excitement we would have had as we win our first league game, first vase match, first FA Cup match, first promotion. My heart would have got behind this team as well as whatever finances I could spare. Even if it had failed then we could have all said, ‘well at least we tried.’
As it is Staines Town FC have been reduced to an ‘and’ which is heartbreaking :(
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Re: Some important information…
Views: 1867
It is a really difficult one and there is no right or wrong answers and it's a credit to the people involved that they have kept on fighting for some kind of future for the club.
I guess the thing is that what from Staines Town FC will be going across to Lammas - players, manager, committee, Steve Parsons etc.....otherwise it does seem like it's just supporting Lammas. Again - this is in no way a criticism of anyone at all - the club has been forced down this route and as long as Wheatsheaf Park is still there then I guess there's hope for a Phoenix Club.
I respect so much what the supporters have done over the past couple of seasons especially - you can all hold your heads high.
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Re: Some important information…
Views: 1851
I understand where Devon Swan is coming from - I support(Ed) Staines Town and not Staines Llamas. If it isn’t Staines Town it would be easier to walk down to Spelthorne Sports and watch them (cheaper drinks as I’m already a member through the cricket club).
However, this is not Staines Llamas - it is Staines AND Llamas ( we cannot use the word Town as STFC still technically exists) and I hope that some time in the future we can be called Staines Town Llamas and claim the history of both Staines Llamas and Staines Town.
The new board is a split of Llamas and Town committee members. It is not a merger as we have nothing to merge but it is a coming together of two teams under one banner as a club for the community of Staines with a potentially better future in terms of facilities than we had before.
I also don’t see why the idea of the club being owned by the supporters through debentures in the near future will not work. Once this happens than the club will truly be a supporters club.
Staines Llamas need us and we bloody well need them.
Ultimately this is the best way of having a viable future and at least I have a game to watch on a Saturday afternoon next season.
Dixon divided STFC and its supporters. Making this new venture a success by all getting behind it will be the best way of proverbially sticking two fingers up at him.
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Re: Some important information…
Views: 1784
No way is this a way of "sticking two fingers up" at Joe Dixon. He'll probably be totally oblivious to the fact that the STFC faithful have gone off to support another club and won't care a stuff.
I'm sure those who brokered this "deal" did it with the best of intentions but football is about passion. The word that's been used a good deal is "heart" but I think that is something of a euphemism.
If there should only be one club in Staines then why one club in North London. Because hell would freeze over before Arsenal got into bed with Tottenham and Gooners would build the best club they could with the resources available if their club went down the pan and don't tell me the two cannot be compared because it is all about passion which I would suggest ought to dictate that STFC supporters start a phoenix club and just do the best they can even if it means starting in the Worple Road and District League. At least ALL the old Swans fans should be united in the venture.
I don't know the minds of the people who've made the decision but it smacks of a certain impatience to get back up the leagues and all conversations concerning the Lammas prior to the announcement were of a groundshare for the NEW club and I know other supporters were quite taken aback when the situation became clearer.
To be honest Torquay Rob your message tells me you have no idea where Devon Swan is coming from. Staines and Lammas is just a name change, nothing more, nothing less.
Has any watched Dagenham & Redbridge recently? None of their supporters chant for Dagenham & Redbridge. Just Dagenham.
This happens all the time in football but it continually misses the point. Ossett Albion merged with Ossett Town (yes, I know we're saying this isn't a merger but let's be honest it is "in spirit") to form Ossett United so that the town would have a more competitve club but the supporters of Town and Albion didn't support the town, they supported the club. Gooners and Spurs don't support North London.
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Re: Some important information…
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There is impatience is getting a club going or, in this case, getting together with an existing club to provide a football club to watch next season. If we didn’t act quickly there would be no club at all in Staines and any interest in the plight of Staines Town supporters would disappear as would any chance of any club resurrecting.. I personally don’t care in the short term about league position, this is more about having a club to watch in the short term and the long term prospects of a community club in Staines.
Comparing a non-football town like Staines with north London is irrelevant. The treasurer of Staines and Llamas has said that the important word in Staines and Llamas is Staines.
I do understand the view of the Devon Swans and will never criticise any opinion of fans that have spent many hours on the road to watch Staines Town (particularly when they can travel only a handful of miles to watch the mighty Gulls).. However, a joint team in Staines does make sense me but I understand that it is not want everyone wanted. Unfortunately Dixon has destroyed what we all really want.
My personal view is that in the near future we can buy debentures in the club and therefore own it. Hopefully one day we can take back the name Town and incorporate it in the name but we cannot do this yet
Edited by Torquayrob at 20:00:36 on 4th July 2022
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1 person
Re: Some important information…
Views: 1634
We were depressed enough Rob without you suggesting we pop down the road to watch the Gulls :)
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Re: Some important information…
Views: 1847
This happens all the time in football but it continually misses the point. Ossett Albion merged with Ossett Town (yes, I know we're saying this isn't a merger but let's be honest it is "in spirit") to form Ossett United so that the town would have a more competitve club but the supporters of Town and Albion didn't support the town, they supported the club. Gooners and Spurs don't support North London.
True, but Ossett United gets consistently higher crowds than the two clubs which merged to form it. For example, in United's first season, they got an average gate of 474; more than Albion and Town combined in the preceding season and without the large visiting supports from Scarborough and South Shields to boost the figures.
At least the new Staines & Lammas (Middlesex) FC is attempting to be inclusive for any Swans who do want to get behind the club, with Old Gold rather than Lammas' yellow featuring prominently in the club crest.
I haven't lost my club, so I can't feel how Swans fans do right now and I offer no comment as to whether forming a phoenix club or joining forces with Lammas is the 'right' way to go. I guess time will tell. I am pretty sure that any phoenix club would have had to sit out this season, so perhaps the joining forces of the STFC Supporters Club with Staines Lammas FC will prove to have been a masterstroke, given that it provides Step 7 football for people to watch and a credible new tenant for Wheatsheaf Park.
Best of luck to you all, whether you throw your lot in with S&L or not.
Edited by beano at 16:01:55 on 4th July 2022
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Re: Some important information…
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Sadly, I predicted this decision would prove highly divisive and the comments suggest that this is so. I wouldn’t compare North London to our situation. A better comparison would be Wimbledon to MK Dons and the birth of a Phoenix club, AFC Wimbledon. We don’t have a fan base large enough to accommodate both opinions, so it really is a case of personal opinion. You’re either in or out. For me, the club is finished and I will not support a side I see as Lammas. However, I respect those that will go and support this ‘new’ team. This quite clearly IS a merger, if only our fans merging with theirs. I don’t see this as a ‘Phoenix’ side and I do wonder whether it would have been better waiting a season to try and forge a Phoenix side rather than rushing into this decision.
Edited by pp7822 at 15:11:42 on 17th July 2022
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Re: Some important information…
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Have to agree with you Yellow Swan.
The important thing for me was that, whatever the decision, we had to get our small support base on board. By joining Staines Lammas we have only split the support base I'm afraid. By forming a Phoenix Club I am convinced that everyone would have been on board. I think that everyone was under the impression that we were going down the Phoenix Club route, which would involve a ground share. No mention was ever made of joining with another Club, so this decision has come as a shock to many, including the Devon Swans.
.
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Re: Some important information…
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Surely we should accept that STFC is dead, enjoy all the wonderful memories we have, and look to the future by supporting the likes of Steve Parsons, John Blair, Dave Norris, David Brown, Christine and all the others involved in keeping STFC afloat for so many years and for going above and beyond the call of duty since the ill fated take over? It can't have been an easy decison for them to make, they will have had the same reservations as some of you about it all during the negotiations, but they have done it in the best interests of local football and for all of the loyal supporters who helped to keep STFC afloat. As a result we still have a club in Staines to support. It's not STFC, but surely with Staines Lammas struggling behind the scenes too, this is better than having no club in Staines at all? With a possible return to WP on the cards, at worst in 6 years time, we just have to support S&L in the same way as we have done all these years with STFC and get behind the team that brought so much success to STFC BD (before Dixon)!
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Re: Some important information…
Views: 1564
Surely it was the right idea to engage the current fan base immediately so nobody went elsewhere.
Football is not a loyal sport, fans move on quickly.
Lammas - Existing ground, Good side and league position, Manager and structure all in place, very local, immediate football.
New Phoenix Club - High cost due to groundshare, no grounds in immediate area - would people travel to Bedfont and beyond to watch a new 'Staines club ? Probably not.
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Re: Some important information…
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I am not convinced by this argument. Why go to a ground share (which ground?). Would the local Staines support be prepared to travel to another ground to watch a Phoenix Club. How would the Phoenix club be funded? We could see from last season the level of performance the fans contributions would fund. however the Phoenix Club would have to pay all the match day fees before players. The current move seems to be the most realistic, being a community club for the town. We know that there is no fairy Godmother around to support a phoenix club - look at Walt Casuals.
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Re: Some important information…
Views: 1882
dixon ruined the club end of story
i knew it from the start thats why i stopped going
i will go to lammas as its near my gaff and some good pubs nearby
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